Graham Outfitter

[Netminder01]

My  ...

Let me first say, I didn't like to see the vultures swarming and given I am "the guy" SPUD initially solicited about Barbour and his services I remain very thankful for all the good guys who gave direct feedback based on personal interaction or provided a bit more critical hole-poking to the story Hillbilly was selling. 

The verdict was still pending and I for one felt the negative comments were slowing down with a few solutions being offered (i.e. free hunt for a Hunt-WA member, youth guide addition, etc).  Hillbilly didn't do himself any favors and the overall conduct of a few pushed the boundaries of where I feel forums should go but equally surprising is the arbitrary call to lock this thread. 

Yeah, it was "entertaining" but I've never seen a forum or thread get locked.  I have to imagine it's happened before but I've been on here for a few years, mostly as a passive observer but I'm on plenty of forums and in technology and social media for a living.  The absolute last thing I would expect from the great guys on this thread and those administer it would've been to censor it. 

If guys were stepping out of line they should be addressed. Pianoman (and a few others) attempted to calm the swarm down a few times as I recall - but if those offenders don't get back in line they should be dealt with appropriately and individually.  The rest of us benefit from the conversation and still interested in seeking the a greater understanding of the situation.  We should not be left to PMing Hillbilly privately since part of the concern is he's scamming people and I for one don't have the as much experience as many others here.

Should the actions of a few prevent the rest of this forum from understanding or hoping something will be brought to bear which settles it?

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net



 

[fillthefreezer]

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net

threads on here get locked all the time. just ask a question about native poaching or something and bam, 24hr later locked...
our mods dont have time to watch a thread thats blowing up like that and keep it clean

[jackelope]

My  ...

Let me first say, I didn't like to see the vultures swarming and given I am "the guy" SPUD initially solicited about Barbour and his services I remain very thankful for all the good guys who gave direct feedback based on personal interaction or provided a bit more critical hole-poking to the story Hillbilly was selling. 

The verdict was still pending and I for one felt the negative comments were slowing down with a few solutions being offered (i.e. free hunt for a Hunt-WA member, youth guide addition, etc).  Hillbilly didn't do himself any favors and the overall conduct of a few pushed the boundaries of where I feel forums should go but equally surprising is the arbitrary call to lock this thread. 

Should the actions of a few prevent the rest of this forum from understanding or hoping something will be brought to bear which settles it?

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net

So...when a thread is to the point where nothing good is going to come of it, we have to babysit it, the beating just continues, etc....it gets locked. We don't delete anymore so the record stays but locking is not uncommon....it is a lot less common than it used to be, but it is definitely not something that doesn't happen.

Yeah, it was "entertaining" but I've never seen a forum or thread get locked.  I have to imagine it's happened before but I've been on here for a few years, mostly as a passive observer but I'm on plenty of forums and in technology and social media for a living.  The absolute last thing I would expect from the great guys on this thread and those administer it would've been to censor it. 

No censoring. It's still there.  Obviously it was pointless to lock it, because someone just started this one.

If guys were stepping out of line they should be addressed. Pianoman (and a few others) attempted to calm the swarm down a few times as I recall - but if those offenders don't get back in line they should be dealt with appropriately and individually.  The rest of us benefit from the conversation and still interested in seeking the a greater understanding of the situation.  We should not be left to PMing Hillbilly privately since part of the concern is he's scamming people and I for one don't have the as much experience as many others here.

That's what I was saying in my last posts in this thread. 17 pages and 425 posts...We don't have time to babysit 1 gigantic  thread with nothing but a bunch of crap after the first few pages and address every post that needs to be addressed. It is against the rules to insult someone on here. That whole thread was people insulting that guy. How is that right?  I'm not going to sit and wait for every new post that comes up so I can nuke it because someone picked on the guy's spelling or grammar or whatever. It should have just stayed locked the 1st time around, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.


Us mods are all volunteers. We all have real lives and work and family and everything else that most adults have. I'd love to think that the forum, mostly comprised of adults, would not need constant monitoring and babysitting, but the simple fact of the matter is, it does. That is why I feel like giant, pointless threads on here that are going nowhere should get locked now and then.

[jackelope]

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net

threads on here get locked all the time. just ask a question about native poaching or something and bam, 24hr later locked...
our mods dont have time to watch a thread thats blowing up like that and keep it clean

But in those 24 hours there will be 132 posts in said thread trashing native americans.
Not awesome, especially since it's happened 132 times in the past.

[pianoman9701]

The continued attacks on Monster bulls with almost no let-up for 16 pages was what did it, in my opinion. If you want to have a discussion and let a guy air his defense of a valid attack, that's one thing. When the whole group of people get personal on the guy for non-hunting related peripherals, then sometimes the bleeding needs to be stopped. I don't have a problem with confronting someone about bad references and asking them to show otherwise. However, about 80% of that thread was abusive and had to do with something over which the target of the abuse has little control. Maybe if the discussion is continued in this thread, the posters can respectfully deal with the hunting issue at hand and leave the personal attacks on his writing style out of it. Again, just my 

[Orion88]

I think that the Mods do a great job of allowing enough to be said, but when it goes downhill then it should be locked.  They are volunters and spend numerous hours keeping this site clean and useful for the members.

[Jonathan_S]

maybe you could go shake a bear ??

beer* learn to spell lol

I am pretty sure he meant "bear" and not beer....shake that bear....I'm not going any further with it..

I'm sure bildo knows what he really meant!!! heck he prolly filmed it!

 :chuckle:Bwhahahahahahahahaha!    

[turkeyfeather]

I gotta say that the last thread lasted longer than I thought it would. I think we all had some fun with the guy (even the mods). Personally I think the guy kinda brought it on himself. He definitely got harassed a bit but I never thought it was vicious. And let's not forget you guys (yes even the mods) have given ddjj1991 a bunch of "poop" for his writing as well.

[fillthefreezer]

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net

threads on here get locked all the time. just ask a question about native poaching or something and bam, 24hr later locked...
our mods dont have time to watch a thread thats blowing up like that and keep it clean

But in those 24 hours there will be 132 posts in said thread trashing native americans.
Not awesome, especially since it's happened 132 times in the past.

exactly. i hope you didnt take this with any sort of tone other than matter of fact as it was intended

[Netminder01]

Thanks guys. 

I don't have the visibility to history to other threads requiring similar action so I'll defer; sounds like similar instances have occurred which required similar action.

As much as I can, I understand the labor of love that goes into any volunteer gig and can only imagine the increase in time spent on dealing with a thread which clearly got out of hand - I'm not sure anyone would disagree with it.  However, I do have a pretty good idea on the effort it takes to perform administrative chores on forums to the extent I can on Hunt-WA without having the visibility of knowing what tools you have at your disposal to administer this forum and members.  If it's a heavy burden of time because of manual effort I could easily see how it could become a time suck... multiplied by the hundreds/thousands of other threads needing management but it does not lessen my personal appreciation for what you guys are doing nor so many others on this thread.

I never saw an attack on native americans or any race and of course - that's atrocious but to me, that's where an individual is banned or held accountable for his/her posts, not killing the entire conversation.  We all signed up for a code of conduct and should be expected to follow it... no different than the work place.

Josh - I'm not sure I agree with nothing good coming from it.  Clearly, there was a swell of negative comments and absolutely flooding in which moved quickly to personal attacks when Shane fanned the flames with his writing style and boasting of records, # of kills or earned revenue which just didn't add up.  I don't condone it at all but I actually felt we were headed in the right direction (IMO). To be completely transparent, there was absolutely good that came out of this threaded discussion.  A few classy guys reached out to me privately to discuss possible hunts this coming year.  Had the thread not blown up - quite possibly, the visibility to members would've been reduced and I may not have had the same chance to connect with guys who seem to have the same passion and ethics as I do.  Of course, this is self-gratifying but even before the thread was locked, I made comments to co-workers as well as SPUD how cool it was for a a couple guys to reach out proactively. That demonstrates class in the midst of some unclassy comments.

Anyway, the good thing about you guys being admins and me being a member is we don't have to agree  .  I was simply sharing my perspective and surprise the thread was locked but having set social strategies and implemented social technologies for small to very large organizations I assure you none have deleted/locked a conversation... just individual users. This is why I was so surprised.

BTW - if you'd like to review any newer forum technologies I happen to know a guy.  wink wink.   

Thanks and appreciate all your comments and thoughts - even Hillbilly's. 

[jackelope]

Again, just my  but I'm really - really surprised the decision to lock the thread was made.

Net

threads on here get locked all the time. just ask a question about native poaching or something and bam, 24hr later locked...
our mods dont have time to watch a thread thats blowing up like that and keep it clean

But in those 24 hours there will be 132 posts in said thread trashing native americans.
Not awesome, especially since it's happened 132 times in the past.

exactly. i hope you didnt take this with any sort of tone other than matter of fact as it was intended

No...we're on the same page.

[Bob33]

Speaking for myself as a moderator, here is my perspective. This site is a source of both information and entertainment. We allow members quite a bit of latitude in what they post, but there are limits.

We’re mindful that web content is visible to visitors as well as members. Some may not hunt, and may not understand our culture very well. Members of this site are a small portion of the 3% of Washington’s population that hunts, but are possibly the face of all hunters to site visitors.

The recent tragic loss of Colockumelk brought out the good, generous, compassionate, and kind nature of so many on here. I would like to believe that visitors to this site, including his wife, saw that.

However, we need to occasionally intervene in threads that go sideways for a variety of issues. The thread about the Graham outfitter had received a point where the bad outweighed the good. Enough information had been posted that would allow members to make an informed choice about the use of his services. Continuous degrading of the outfitter’s business, justifiable or not, really didn’t provide much value and was reaching a point that wasn’t doing us as hunters any good.

Moderators constantly communicate behind the scenes, and rarely make decisions without consensus.

This is a great site. Let’s keep it that way.

[jackelope]

.............Thanks and appreciate all your comments and thoughts - even Hillbilly's.

Chuck-
This forum is totally manual as far as I know. The "censor" function that censors swear words is automatic, but that's about it as far as I know. I am not a tech guy.  Dale has a guy hired for technical issues. He is set up as with "administrator" status so he can access everything that he needs. I don't know of any automated function.

As far as the nothing good coming from it part..I probably shouldn't have said nothing good...the 1st 2-3 pages were great. Perfect. Hunters helping hunters evade a possible huge issue. Just what this forum is here for. However, after it took a nose dive, that's when it should've ended. It ended a lot later than it should have if you ask me.

The longer you spend here, you'll find threads do get locked. I'd say it takes a lot now to get banned but we do ban. Dale has backed us off of banning people permanently. We might give out a 24 hour ban, a 3 day or 7 day but almost never do we perma-ban anymore. You have to be a pretty vile individual these days to get banned permanently...that or you've gotten the little bans multiple times.

[Netminder01]

.............Thanks and appreciate all your comments and thoughts - even Hillbilly's.

Chuck-
This forum is totally manual as far as I know. The "censor" function that censors swear words is automatic, but that's about it as far as I know. I am not a tech guy.  Dale has a guy hired for technical issues. He is set up as with "administrator" status so he can access everything that he needs. I don't know of any automated function.

As far as the nothing good coming from it part..I probably shouldn't have said nothing good...the 1st 2-3 pages were great. Perfect. Hunters helping hunters evade a possible huge issue. Just what this forum is here for. However, after it took a nose dive, that's when it should've ended. It ended a lot later than it should have if you ask me.

The longer you spend here, you'll find threads do get locked. I'd say it takes a lot now to get banned but we do ban. Dale has backed us off of banning people permanently. We might give out a 24 hour ban, a 3 day or 7 day but almost never do we perma-ban anymore. You have to be a pretty vile individual these days to get banned permanently...that or you've gotten the little bans multiple times.

Thanks Josh!

[boneaddict]

THey have pretty much explained it.   I don't tend to lock things.   I tend to say that's enough and when some newbie decides to try the old man, they get a pair of cleats to the nuts and about 3 days to let the swelling go down.   Locking is also very effective so we can go about more useful things like running auctions, and helping people post pics and stuff like that.   There seems to always be a new personality with the same old personality of stirring the pot or derailing subjects.   Trust me they quickly outlive their welcome and are dealt with.  The meat of the thread has not and will not be removed.