Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting

[bearpaw]

Political pressure in Idaho to eliminate the wolf lovers in F&G resulted in a new director and at least one new regional manager. The F&G in Idaho is still pretty protective of wolves and has hunted certain elk herds very hard to try and make the overall statewide elk harvest look less impacted by wolves. Many Idaho people are still unhappy about this. In Montana the people are even more dissatisfied with their F&G.

So I don't see ID/MT F&G Dept's helping us out much. For the most part when you talk to local people who live in ID/MT they say just shoot them year around and shut up about it.

Obviously I can't condone killing wolves and committing a felony, but as Rep Joel Kretz has said, the WDFW is forcing people in NE WA into a corner, do you let the wolves destroy your property or do you commit a felony?

One thing I can say for sure, WDFW is not making many friends in NE WA. It seems to me the best answer is to hope for the quick spread of wolves, I can guarantee as wolves move into new areas peoples attitudes will change. Sooner than you think I believe killing a wolf will be decriminalized.

(Remember when Idaho's Gov Otter instructed the IDFG that they could no longer take action or turn in wolf poachers to USFWS.)

As wolves spread there love eventually laws will change, and it will probably happen sooner than most people think.

[headshot5]

Is this just a dog and pony show, or are they really concerned about out game herds and hunters?

Nope more of a wolf and pony show, but the pony only has 3 legs.  This probably a CYA (Cover your ...) move, so when the SHTF, they can claim the public was in on it and appraised of the situation.  I don't believe anything new will come from the meeting.  They are just testing the waters.   

[CementFinisher]

aspenbud  everytime i read asp oh god make it stooooo p!  I think that most of us don't want to work around wolves. that their numbers should be so low we don't have to worry about our working dogs. To effectively hunt hounds you cant work around them. For bird dogs if everyone avoids them then the hunters are pushed into tighter and tighter concentrations leading to higher probabilities of accidents and also more quickly draining that areas game birds. I'm tired of pro wolf rhetoric, look that all sounds fine and dandy but in the real world it don't work. No need for these vermin

[bearpaw]

aspenbud  everytime i read asp oh god make it stooooo p!  I think that most of us don't want to work around wolves. that their numbers should be so low we don't have to worry about our working dogs. To effectively hunt hounds you cant work around them. For bird dogs if everyone avoids them then the hunters are pushed into tighter and tighter concentrations leading to higher probabilities of accidents and also more quickly draining that areas game birds. I'm tired of pro wolf rhetoric, look that all sounds fine and dandy but in the real world it don't work. No need for these vermin

He simply needs to live around some wolves and learn the reality of the wolf love.   

[OOptics]

Here's how it will go. The bio's & experts make the decision to have a substantial quota & seasons. Leaf lickers whine about them being endangered. Maybe goes to a public vote like hound hunting/bear baiting & years of court appeals.  Meanwhile deer, elk, & moose populations take a dive resulting in less revenue from tags & licenses in turn meaning jacked up prices for the rest. The end of hunting as we know it.

Great points.  I see this playing out the same way unfortunately.  Of course it seems as if anytime the government puts their hands on wildlife management (or anything else for that matter) it ends the same.  Thanks for your thoughts!

[ribka]

"Successful strategies".  fewer tags and raising fees

They will also discuss strategies that successful big game hunters have adopted while hunting in their states.

Why do I have a feeling this will be the main topic to come out of this meeting?

"We're going to let the wolves take what they want ...... so here are some suggestions for what you're going to have to do with what's left ....."

[ribka]

I guess one question I would like answered is "They didn't listen to the "experts" from Montana and Idaho during the proposal meetings, so why are they trying to snow us with their "concern" now?"

This is nothing more than a PR move aimed at appeasing sportsman that are understandably pissed off.
[/quote
Yep
 There is no concern and only disdain for sportsmen in this state.
Now they can Check the box and claim that common sense and logical wolf management was done with input from sportsmen.

[ribka]

if a a few wolves  came into an area you were bird hunting and eying your dog and then rushed toward your dog would you shoot them  :'(or hug them 

WDFW purposefully kept the public ignorant of their efforts so they could establish and expand wolf packs and they continually are doing so.

Might still be some good bird hunting as well.  Or do wolves eat grouse and pheasant too?

Grouse huntign with dogs will be much more dangerouse since there have been several bad encounters in ID. I think in addition to the bird shot buckshot will  come with me.  SOME kinds of small game hunting MAY get better if they reduce the coyote population significantly, but there are always  Hawks, Magpies, Ravens/crows and other avian predators may take up the slack. 

Honestly it kind of depends on the hunter. A guy just putting his dog on the ground without checking out the surroundings a little is just asking for it.

Most bad encounters with dogs and wolves have involved hounds. That said, I've heard of several close calls with bird dogs for years from people out in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. That hasn't deterred anyone from still going out though.

Knowing where wolves are known to occur is a good way to avoid them. Looking for various aged tracks and droppings, especially any in the middle of the road is also a good way to keep your dogs out of trouble. Old tracks and poop don't necessarily mean wolves are in the area, fresh stuff is a problem.

But probably the most important thing to do is to note if the tracks are going both directions. That would indicate you are either on a pack boundary that is contested or a rendezvous area, both are HIGHLY dangerous areas for dogs and should be avoided if you intend to hunt grouse with your dog.

This is actually one of my biggest gripes with how WDFW and the state of Washington overall is handling the wolf situation. People have no idea of what to look for or how to avoid them and the state has done little to educate people on that.

[huntnphool]

Might still be some good bird hunting as well.  Or do wolves eat grouse and pheasant too?

Grouse huntign with dogs will be much more dangerouse since there have been several bad encounters in ID. I think in addition to the bird shot buckshot will  come with me.  SOME kinds of small game hunting MAY get better if they reduce the coyote population significantly, but there are always  Hawks, Magpies, Ravens/crows and other avian predators may take up the slack. 

People have no idea of what to look for or how to avoid them and the state has done little to educate people on that.

What? Are you kidding? What about the $millions$ estimated to be generated (in the proposal) by tourists flocking to Washington State to view them. How is that supposed to happen if you can't actually see them?

$$$millions$$ mind you, $$$millions$$$

[CedarPants]

My question submitted via email:

If I'm hunting, I have to purchase a hunting license.  I also have to purchase a Discover Pass depending on where I'll be.  I have to contribute a good chunk of money to be allowed (legally) in the woods to do what I like to do.

If I'm 'wolf watching' and have no intent of hunting - other than a Discover Pass for state lands (and not even required if I'm on Federal land), are there any fees I'm required to pay for me to have the opportunity to watch wolves?

WDFW seems to be making a push toward "wildlife viewing" as a plausible objective for their department, but who is paying for those viewing opportunities?

[AspenBud]

aspenbud  everytime i read asp oh god make it stooooo p!  I think that most of us don't want to work around wolves. that their numbers should be so low we don't have to worry about our working dogs. To effectively hunt hounds you cant work around them. For bird dogs if everyone avoids them then the hunters are pushed into tighter and tighter concentrations leading to higher probabilities of accidents and also more quickly draining that areas game birds. I'm tired of pro wolf rhetoric, look that all sounds fine and dandy but in the real world it don't work. No need for these vermin

At an average of $500-$2000 for a quality gun dog (not counting training and any electronics hanging around the dog's neck), and not Joe Bob's latest back yard bred lab, most guys will want to avoid wolves where they can and the advice I gave is good to follow. You can't avoid all potential encounters, but you can try to minimize them and as long as this state does not allow a person to so much as shoot a wolf threatening harm to property like dogs or themselves for that matter, people should know what to look for and frankly should regardless. I'm not quite sure how any rational person can argue against that.

As for concentrations of hunters, I hear what you're saying, but in all honesty, it's not like people flock to this state to hunt grouse. Increased hunting pressure on the birds is some bored elk hunter taking a head shot at one with a .30-06 in the middle of the road. They are truly "fool hens" here compared to other parts of the country.

But you're welcome to disagree with, and ignore, my advice here. It's like sticking your finger in a light socket, but hey, it's a free country.

You are however correct about hounds. They run so far out it's hard to safeguard them. But then again, the voters of this state made using them virtually illegal so it's not really relevant to the discussion as it relates to WA. My point was that most bad encounters involve such dogs, where they can be used, and there is good reason for that. But folks with bird dogs can minimize such encounters.

Good luck out there cowboy.

[bearpaw]

One of the best things you can do for hunting dogs is to put bells on them, that deters many wolves, but some packs eventually ignore the bells and eat the dogs anyway. My son and his dogs have been flanked by packs of wolves in Idaho for long distances when walking out after dark. Fortunately the wolves didn't attack but it scared him and the dogs pretty good. We have discussed trying those loud beepers if the wolf problem continues to escalate, more bird hunters may want to start using those as well.

I still think in a couple years when wolf problems continue to increase across Washington the people will start taking care of the problem if WDFW doesn't man up. No doubt about it, there actions over the next couple years to manage or not to manage problem wolves will determine how people respond. The way they presented their wolf meetings this spring and then the way they are handling wolf problems this year in NE WA is not working in their favor, they are losing ground fast with the locals.

Most people just laugh or shake their head when you mention anything about predators and WDFW in the same sentence. It's pretty much a joke. 

[ribka]

I used to return homeband hunt WI for grouse and wood cock every Fall with my dog. I started having close encounters with wolves coming up and harrassing my dog. I had a bell on my dog as some the areas were super thick. Did not seem to deter wolves.  "Warning shots" with high brass sixes seemed to work though. This was before hunting was approved and the wolves as expected were losing fear of humans and were coming into urban areas looking for food.


Two of my buddies in WI lost dogs bird hunting. There is a shoot on site attitude now in N WI regarding wolves. Can expect the same here in WA if they do address the problems and implement a way to manage them before the population explodes. As usual in thebstate of Washington  the  progressive wolf luvers from King County and other urban areas will control the debate, shutdown any talk of a common sense wolf management plan  and sportsmen will pay more for less hunting opportunities.

ID WY and MT are fortunate that they have a stronger pro sportsmen lobby than WA.

aspenbud  everytime i read asp oh god make it stooooo p!  I think that most of us don't want to work around wolves. that their numbers should be so low we don't have to worry about our working dogs. To effectively hunt hounds you cant work around them. For bird dogs if everyone avoids them then the hunters are pushed into tighter and tighter concentrations leading to higher probabilities of accidents and also more quickly draining that areas game birds. I'm tired of pro wolf rhetoric, look that all sounds fine and dandy but in the real world it don't work. No need for these vermin

At an average of $500-$2000 for a quality gun dog (not counting training and any electronics hanging around the dog's neck), and not Joe Bob's latest back yard bred lab, most guys will want to avoid wolves where they can and the advice I gave is good to follow. You can't avoid all potential encounters, but you can try to minimize them and as long as this state does not allow a person to so much as shoot a wolf threatening harm to property like dogs or themselves for that matter, people should know what to look for and frankly should regardless. I'm not quite sure how any rational person can argue against that.

As for concentrations of hunters, I hear what you're saying, but in all honesty, it's not like people flock to this state to hunt grouse. Increased hunting pressure on the birds is some bored elk hunter taking a head shot at one with a .30-06 in the middle of the road. They are truly "fool hens" here compared to other parts of the country.

But you're welcome to disagree with, and ignore, my advice here. It's like sticking your finger in a light socket, but hey, it's a free country.

You are however correct about hounds. They run so far out it's hard to safeguard them. But then again, the voters of this state made using them virtually illegal so it's not really relevant to the discussion as it relates to WA. My point was that most bad encounters involve such dogs, where they can be used, and there is good reason for that. But folks with bird dogs can minimize such encounters.

Good luck out there cowboy.

[wolfbait]

The USFWS, IDFG, MT, WY, WA, OR, CO, ND,  and several other states all have one thing in common, the USFWS's wolf push. Wyoming legistlators stood up for the people of Wyoming, and now that state hunts wolves as a predator in parts of the state.

Huntnphool among others say, prove the USFWS and WDFW have released wolves in WA! I know for a fact they have, and so do several others.

But go beyond all of the eye witnesses of wolf releases by either the USFWS or WDFW. After 70 years, all of a sudden WA and OR have their first wolf pack confirmed the very same day. And after 70 years, say from 2008 up till now>five years later WA is full of wolves. My guess is there aren't that many fools left when it comes to how wolves ended up in WA or OR.   

Prove it they say, where's the pictures? How long will it take to prove pictures really arn't necessary? WDFW say they have never released wolves in WA, they refuse to confirm wolf killed livestock, they refuse to confirm wolf packs, they refuse to confirm the decimation of game herds, basically refuse to acknowledge the fact that wolves are having an impact at all.

If the USFWS and WDFW lies to everyone about wolves and where they came from, the impact they are having on game herds and livestock, how many fools still believe they want your advise? How many people believe WDFW didn't know what the wolves would do to WA when they started releasing them?

How many people now believe there will ever be any real management of wolves by WDFW?

Forget about wolves, how many counties have a major bear or cougar problem?

How many fools are there in WA?

[BOWHUNTER45]

When they get thick I hope not many look at me head on