Going Full Frame DSLR

[Bean Counter]

Thanks to all who have jumped in here... Cheers

Your issue seems to do more with lenses than with your camera body.  I'd suggest looking at the Canon 7D.  It's still a cropped frame but handles very high ISO really well.  "Faster" lenses will also allow you to shoot in lower light conditions, giving much better results.

I appreciate your input but I don't think its my lenses, but rather the now somewhat archaic crop sensor. Heck my camera is now "dated", like 2006. 

For lenses, i am shooting the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 USM IS, the 70-200mm f/4L USM IS, and the 50mm f/1.8 II. Not exactly glass that people put down on a regular basis. I have shot other lenses including L glass in other copies. I see similar results on the crop sensor whether its a $1,000 lens or a $100 lens in 2/3 of the shots I take (daytime, normal light). Using an appropriate aperture and other technique and its pretty tough to see sharpness differences when it isn't specifics of expensive glass that one needs: ie image stabilization, uber fast aperture, etc.

All Canon crop sensors are noisy and not good in low light.  The 7D is really really noisy and produces ugly images, IMO.  If you can shoot at ISO 200-400 all the time I guess it's ok, but if you are shooting in that much light then you don't have very good quality light.  A new 7D is coming but now they say next year.  I went full frame years ago after my 3rd 7D and I finally realized I hate the camera despite the great specs on paper. 

Funny: i'm at the same place here I'm at at the XTi. Noise is mostly invisible < ISO 200 somewhat visible at ISO 400 and prominent at 800+. As I said 2/3 of my shots are great and that should be good enough for most shooters and impressive with a camera that I will likely sell on Craigslist for $200. I'm getting more bothered by the 1/3 shots where I want better ISO/noise performance.

Going from your current camera to a 5D3 will incrementally help you more than about any glass you can buy.

That's pretty much what I've thought.

If you don't need fast autofocus, what's wrong with the 5D2? 

Nothing is wrong with it, and it sure would be a step up from where I'm at. I'd probably jump on a good deal if I saw one. Heck I'd even buy a Mark 1 of the 5D except the ISO cuts off at 3200.  But I can pick up a new 6D on ebay for $1,600, only a few hundred bucks more than a 5Dii would cost me. For only that much more, I'd rather have the in-camera lens corrections and built in HDR. I've been moving in the direction of wanting to get as much done right in camera, the first time as opposed to spending too much time on hocus pocus, voodoo processing.

I don't do as much wildlife as I would like and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The diamond pattern layout is just fine with me but again I wish a full frame camera like the 6d would have gone and made them all cross type sensors. Shawn: don't you find all those dammed AF points all over your Mark III or 7D viewfinder to be annoying and distracting? Maybe I need to go finger one myself and make my decision from there.

[huntnphool]

Hope you make a huntwa member a good deal on that 17-55mm

[Bean Counter]

Well I have the hood, caps, a Hoya multicoated UV filter ($50), a B+W XS-Pro Kaesseman circular polarizer with multi-resistant nano coating ($175) as well as the original instruction manual. Lens is in perfect shape. Glass has always had a filter on it. I want to sell it all together as I will have no use with $200+ worth of filters without the lens. Not planning on a 77mm lens in my new setup.

I sense a classified ad in our future 

[huntnphool]

Well I have the hood, caps, a Hoya multicoated UV filter ($50), a B+W XS-Pro Kaesseman circular polarizer with multi-resistant nano coating ($175) as well as the original instruction manual. Lens is in perfect shape. Glass has always had a filter on it. I want to sell it all together as I will have no use with $200+ worth of filters without the lens. Not planning on a 77mm lens in my new setup.

I sense a classified ad in our future 

The 17-40mm L, 24-105mm L and the 24mm 1.4L all use a 77mm filter.

[popeshawnpaul]

Having more focus points helps because you need them on the power points and the other point layouts from other cameras don't quite reach the power point.  If you feel there is too many, you can simply change the settings to the diamond pattern or link them into groups for quick changing.  The diamond layout is why I didn't like my 40D and some other cameras...

I know the 6D only uses SD cards and I'm not sure how quick those are.  I think the U ones are faster now but I haven't compared them.  I can download thousands of images in just a few minutes with the Lexar 1000x CF card and it saves me time at the end of long shooting days.  The burst rate is also great for when you need to shotgun some shots off.  Stay away from the original 5D.  The battery life is awful and you have to change a few times each cold morning and always carry spares.  It's too big a pain.

Swap that 17-55 with a 17-40 if on a budget or 24-70 f4 (new version is amazing) and you are good to go.

[Alchase]

Funny: i'm at the same place here I'm at at the XTi. Noise is mostly invisible < ISO 200 somewhat visible at ISO 400 and prominent at 800+. As I said 2/3 of my shots are great and that should be good enough for most shooters and impressive with a camera that I will likely sell on Craigslist for $200. I'm getting more bothered by the 1/3 shots where I want better ISO/noise performance.

I have the same camera, your description is exactly what I see.
Every time I play with the ISO on my buddy's 5DIII, I start drooling.

These are ISO 3200 shots I couldn't get as good without this camera:

That is amazing!

At ISO 800 I have to crank up the "Luminance" in Lightroom just to make half decent picture.

[BOOM!!]

 

Shawn, that owl shot is amazing!

[Bean Counter]

Having more focus points helps because you need them on the power points and the other point layouts from other cameras don't quite reach the power point.  If you feel there is too many, you can simply change the settings to the diamond pattern or link them into groups for quick changing.  The diamond layout is why I didn't like my 40D and some other cameras...

That is good info, thanks.

I know the 6D only uses SD cards and I'm not sure how quick those are.  I think the U ones are faster now but I haven't compared them.  I can download thousands of images in just a few minutes with the Lexar 1000x CF card and it saves me time at the end of long shooting days.  The burst rate is also great for when you need to shotgun some shots off.  Stay away from the original 5D.  The battery life is awful and you have to change a few times each cold morning and always carry spares.  It's too big a pain.

Swap that 17-55 with a 17-40 if on a budget or 24-70 f4 (new version is amazing) and you are good to go.

Again, good info. My priority is to sell the 17-55mm, then sell my XTi body and maybe the 50 f/1.8 with it if necessary. I will keep the 70-200mm f/4L IS and maybe add a fixed 35mm f/1.8 and zoom with my feet.  I don't like carrying lots of lenses, and I imagine that on a full frame, withoout the 'crop factor,' that 70-200mm is a very useful focal length for what I want to do.

[Bean Counter]

Still looking out for a good deal. Trying to trade some firearms or ammo but the two communities don't exactly overlap.

Anyone considering full frame: Costco has a package deal right now for a Canon 6d + 24-105 f/4L + 75-300mm IS.  The 24-105 is L glass, the 75-300 is not. Its $300 off for $3,000 before tax. 

Cheers.

[boneaddict]

I've come to the conclusion I cant stand my 7D.  I don't know what it is, but I get much better photos with my 40D.   I chose it for the external flash, (conv. with family shots) and its rapid fire for sports shots.   I've tossed the whole crop sensor thing around, back and forth in my mind, so that was a wash.   I have the glass, now wish I had the camera.   

[boneaddict]

Those after dark photos are REALLY COOL guys!