Wolf in Whatcom Co.

[Birddogman]

Wolf in Ferndale is not likely.....Have to cross i-5 to get there, or swim from Vancouver island....?  I would believe places like MF, Stewart Mt., Black Mt......I-5 is a big barrier.

Although, a cougar was caught in Discovery Park in Seattle (land locked by hundreds of houses).  Where is the proof?

[wildweeds]

More than likely an  offspring of a coy dog mating between a Malamute sire and a coyote bitch.Common things happen often,uncommon things don't,when you hear the sound of thundering hooves think horses not zebras.The common sense tells me it's a cross of a hybrid wolf pet and another wolf looking type dog that has been abandoned or is allowed to run loose.

[Cougartail]

Lots of people own wolf hybrids in Washington & Oregon. Years ago they had an article about how many couldn't control them and some were let go. One breeder in Bellingham was telling of how many were returned to her. I remember reading about 2 captured in Oregon that were thought to be wolves but ended up being hybrids.

WDFW was trying to trap a cougar down by the King Dome back in the 90s so anything is possible.

[wildweeds]

I suppose,my great uncle had a 40 acre farm at the intersection of I5 and slater and about 10 years ago had a bull moose on his property for a month or so,just hanging with the cows,the moose later moved toward bellingham and they had pictures of him in a park in town.But where this wolf is reported to be is out by the indian reservation, lots and lots of stray dogs that have learned to fend for themselves,many years ago while yote hunting I came pretty close to smoking a german sheperd/coyote looking thing that was runnning in on the call,out in the middle of nowwhere(no houses for 2-3 miles)

Lots of people own wolf hybrids in Washington & Oregon. Years ago they had an article about how many couldn't control them and some were let go. One breeder in Bellingham was telling of how many were returned to her. I remember reading about 2 captured in Oregon that were thought to be wolves but ended up being hybrids.

WDFW was trying to trap a cougar down by the King Dome back in the 90s so anything is possible.

[paytonma]

didnt someone snare one up there back in the 90's thought i read an article about that 

[idahohuntr]

 Do you think people should just be quiet and wait for delisting, in other-wards trust that WDFW will do the right thing for sportsmen, ranchers and the wildlife?

No, what I am suggesting is we can't fight crazy with crazy or we will lose badly in this very liberal state.  DoW are well funded, well organized and support a lot of liberal politicians in this state.  I wish wolf management was decided by hunters, ranchers, and rural communities.  That is simply not reality.  Governor appointed commissioners, voter elected state politicians...that is who will set wolf policy.  WDFW is more of a pawn in a very divisive social issue.  I think it is extremely important for sportsmen, ranchers, folks in rural communities (particularly NE Washington) to speak out about personal experiences with wolves in an intelligent way and to make sure these politicians hear about the need to manage and control wolves.  All of the energy expended on unsubstantiated conspiracies does not help.  Hunters have science on their side...we don't need to resort to government conspiracies...they undermine all the evidence that supports wolf hunting/management in this state.  Furthermore, it is perfectly reasonable to have disagreements with WDFW...they are a large organization with a diverse set of stakeholders...I could list dozens of things they could do better or hunting laws that should be changed (or eliminated!)...but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations.  As wrong as it may seem...we have to play the political game and be smart about the messages we convey as sportsmen...I'm not suggesting you have to cozy up with wdfw...just stomach them long enough to get the end result I think most all of us want: De-listed wolves and more control actions to reduce potential impacts to ungulates and livestock.   

By the way...I noticed you disagreed with me without claiming I was a WDFW/USFWS insider...I appreciate that.

[wolfbait]

"it is perfectly reasonable to have disagreements with WDFW...they are a large organization with a diverse set of stakeholders...I could list dozens of things they could do better or hunting laws that should be changed (or eliminated!)..

.but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations."

This statement just doesn't add up, there are too many known wolf packs that WDFW are refusing to confirm, the Methow Valley is a perfect example. As far as minimizing the impacts wolves are having on the deer, etc. I have a hard time seeing this. in 2007 we fed over 100 head of deer with our horses, last year we had six. Talking to ranchers around the Methow and they have seen the same decline. What will it take for WDFW to acknowledge the impact an over population of cougars and wolves are having on the game herds. We have seen they are not honest about livestock killed by wolves.

[idahohuntr]

"it is perfectly reasonable to have disagreements with WDFW...they are a large organization with a diverse set of stakeholders...I could list dozens of things they could do better or hunting laws that should be changed (or eliminated!)..

.but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations."

This statement just doesn't add up, there are too many known wolf packs that WDFW are refusing to confirm, the Methow Valley is a perfect example. As far as minimizing the impacts wolves are having on the deer, etc. I have a hard time seeing this. in 2007 we fed over 100 head of deer with our horses, last year we had six. Talking to ranchers around the Methow and they have seen the same decline. What will it take for WDFW to acknowledge the impact an over population of cougars and wolves are having on the game herds. We have seen they are not honest about livestock killed by wolves.

My experience with wolves is that they are difficult to observe/confirm...I spent months in the Frank Church wilderness and did not see a single wolf a few years ago...I know there are many, many packs in there.  I think it is more of an issue in how hard it is to confirm packs than a deliberate attempt to under report them.  This is where I think having reasonable conversations and not making enemies of WDFW helps.  If you know where wolf packs are that have not been confirmed can you help wdfw?  Maybe set trail cams (and take GPS coordinates of their location) so when you get wolves on camera you can share them with WDFW...or help their staff who are out trying to confirm wolf packs with just where they are...I doubt wdfw has many staff with much wolf experience and so that makes it even more challenging...not to mention they have limited resources.  I guess at the end of the day I would rather someone like you work with WDFW to help them confirm wolves than simply make enemies of them in which case you ruin your ability to share your local knowledge of wolves which WDFW may desperately need...whether they admit it or not

I am with you on making sure declines in ungulates are documented so that they can be addressed...what does WDFW say about deer herds in the Methow?  Do they monitor this herd?  If so, are their counts showing declines? 

On the livestock, I think it is similar in that "confirming" a wolf kill may not be simple...I think it would be better if maybe a "suspected" wolf kill was sufficient for compensation...Although I know a rancher in Idaho who was at a wolf meeting years ago with IDFG, USFWS, and some greenie groups...a few of the whacko DoW people said livestock losses are not an issue because the rancher will be compensated.  The rancher stood up and said his livelihood is to raise cattle to be sold on the market...not to raise them to be eaten by wolves and get paid by the government.  I thought it was a great point...it would be like telling all of us hunters...hey, don't worry about wolves killing all your game...if you can't hunt anymore we will give you 50lbs of beef from the grocery store to compensate for the fact you can't hunt.  Not a sufficient answer to any hunter I know!!

[wolfbait]

"I guess at the end of the day I would rather someone like you work with WDFW to help them confirm wolves than simply make enemies of them in which case you ruin your ability to share your local knowledge of wolves which WDFW may desperately need...whether they admit it or not"

The USWS and WDFW know where their wolves are. What they need to know is that many people are seeing that they are liars, and these people are sharing. 

The Alberta wolves have proven that the USFWS and WDFW ARE LIARS.

 Ask WDFW, USFWS and the Defenders of Wildlife about their wolf push of the 1980's and 90's! Ask WDFW what happened to the SIX confirmed wolf packs of 1991. Ask WDFW who came up with the first wolf pack in seventy years for 2008! And then ask WDFW why these wolves were finally confirmed?

The sad issue is, the wildlife and livestock and the people who have to deal with wolves that never belonged in the lower 48 have to deal with a crooked USFWS and state game agencies infested by lawyer environmentalists. $600.00 per hr. 

I wonder how much the USFWS and WDFW-AKA Defenders of Wildlife, will make off the Wolverine  ??

[idahohuntr]

Well, my perception is different than yours.  I do not think DoW is in bed with WDFW.  Further, wolves are federally de-listed in Eastern WA...so your continued rants about USFWS are largely irrelevant with respect to wolf management in E WA.  And guess what...rural folks in NE WA are so vastly outnumbered by one suburb of Seattle that if you think you can win this fight screaming about government conspiracies you are beyond naive.  Is it fair or right that this is the case?? Hell no.  Do you think I liked reading about how Idaho should manage wolves in the New York Times??  Guess what...Life is Not Fair.

I watched (and still see) crazy rhetoric flying in Idaho on wolf management...there is not one example where someone making wild accusations against IDFG on wolf issues led to favorable wolf control outcomes.  NOT ONE!! Reasonable voices calling for rationale, science based state management of wolves is what has carried the day.  Read RMEF's position on wolf management...very responsible.  To think using the same bunch of misinformation as the crazies in Idaho (none of your rants are original by the way...its all the same stupid BS I heard 5-10 years ago in Idaho) that you will make a difference in much more liberal Washington  is absurd.  Like it or not, WDFW is our biggest ally...the sooner you see that the better.  Now, if you are just a general anti-government person hellbent on deriding all gov. agencies...thats fine...but don't disguise it in any shape, way, or form as giving a damn about actually doing something productive to help deer and elk populations. 

[Special T]

IF the WDFW is short handed and is truly interested in help, why did they not accept the help and funding of the cattlemen association to trap and collar wolves? The trust of the WDFW or the lack of skepticism you display idahohunter comes from either being ignorant of the facts or because you have an addenda to push. While i do not share wolfbaits vitriol of people like you, i am tired of people carrying the WDFW's water.

I hear people like you constantly asking for more "reasonable" conversation about the wolf issue.
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW left wolves in the NE on the protected list despite the Feds taking them off ESA protections?
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW turned away help in time and $ to hire EXPERIENCED trappers and pay for expensive collars for wolves?
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW has blown off reports of wolves and or pups by Upstanding members here who provide the kinds of facts necessary to document wolves but are blown off? I might add that these people don't normally debate the wolf issue but have first hand experience.

Would it be reasonable to tell the public how many wolves have been collared by WDFW and USFS, and or their basic locations in WA?

Would it be reasonable to expect that when reporting wolf encounters/ sightings they would ask for all the details like time date, place, pics etc and then told you likely saw a hybrid?

Is it reasonable that the WDFW tells  us we are seeing hybrids everywhere that can only damage the true genetic stock, yet tells us to do nothing, and does nothing in return?

I am amazed that people like your self see a friend in the WDFW or USFS. I know of good people that work for either, however LEADERSHIP is lacking in both agencies and they are the ones causing the problems. Individual bio's or wardens can bee good people, and want what is best for us, NONE of them have been willing to buck their leadership and talk about how we are being screwed.

[wafisherman]

There is a wolf lover program in Anacortes.  Could be an escapee???

http://www.predatorsoftheheart.com/

[Special T]

There are lots of these so called 99% hybrids like what they have. IMO they are as much of the problem as real wolves because the WDFW has NO plan in regards to them... The ONLY way to tell if its a DNA pure wolf is to get a DNA sample.  SO because the WDFW refuses help the only ways to tell is by their own trappers taking a sample...

[idahohuntr]

IF the WDFW is short handed and is truly interested in help, why did they not accept the help and funding of the cattlemen association to trap and collar wolves?

Not sure...have you asked them why?  What was their response?  If the offer was legitimate it may be that government organizations are often restricted on who they can accept funding from...it may have been a legal issue.  However, it may have also been a public perception issue...if the cattlemens association is funding wolf trapping is that biasing WDFW?  How will that play out in court if DoW sues WDFW?  May have been more cons than pros on taking valuable assistance.  I don't know...I would be curious to hear WDFW's response.

The trust of the WDFW or the lack of skepticism you display idahohunter comes from either being ignorant of the facts or because you have an addenda to push. While i do not share wolfbaits vitriol of people like you, i am tired of people carrying the WDFW's water.

I have no agenda, I represent no groups, I think for myself.  I serve on the GMAC and have had limited interaction with WDFW on wolf issues...that is what I base my perceptions of them on.  That and I have seen this same battle play out in Idaho and saw what was successful and not successful in terms of getting positive wolf management actions.  I don't care what others think of me...I call a spade a spade.

I hear people like you constantly asking for more "reasonable" conversation about the wolf issue.
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW left wolves in the NE on the protected list despite the Feds taking them off ESA protections?

No, but reality is you have a liberal state that has its own endangered species legislation.  You can cry about it, but that is reality.  WDFW must follow State Law.

Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW turned away help in time and $ to hire EXPERIENCED trappers and pay for expensive collars for wolves?

It may be reasonable, I don't know the details of the cattlemens offers and the restraints of wdfw...the governor appointed commission may not have allowed them to accept the money...see above.

Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW has blown off reports of wolves and or pups by Upstanding members here who provide the kinds of facts necessary to document wolves but are blown off? I might add that these people don't normally debate the wolf issue but have first hand experience.

The requirements of confirming wolf packs are higher than just getting reports from upstanding citizens.  If people were truly just "blown off" by WDFW I suspect it would only be folks like wolfbait who have spread consipracy and misinformation and made enemies of WDFW staff.  Public servants have to listen to a lot of stupid BS...once you get put on the "bat-S*** crazy" list it is hard to get off that list

Would it be reasonable to tell the public how many wolves have been collared by WDFW and USFS, and or their basic locations in WA?

There are laws that prevent disclosing specific animal locations, particularly animals protected by state legislation as wolves currently are.  They report pack locations...which is a general area...is that not sufficient?  I'm not sure there is a reason they can't identify how many wolves are collared...perhaps you just talked to someone who didn't know? Seems like I remember hearing specific numbers of wolves that have been collared by WDFW at some meeting, but I am unsure on that.

Would it be reasonable to expect that when reporting wolf encounters/ sightings they would ask for all the details like time date, place, pics etc and then told you likely saw a hybrid?

Not sure what your point is here?

Is it reasonable that the WDFW tells  us we are seeing hybrids everywhere that can only damage the true genetic stock, yet tells us to do nothing, and does nothing in return?

Again, I don't understand your point.  You think wdfw is trying to under-report wolves by claiming they are all hybrids?  Stuff I have heard from Dave Ware of WDFW suggests that we are at the start of exponential growth of wolf numbers in Washington...similar to what was observed in wolf numbers in ID and MT.  Essentially, WDFW is saying that we should expect to see a lot more wolves in the not too distant future. 

I am amazed that people like your self see a friend in the WDFW or USFS. I know of good people that work for either, however LEADERSHIP is lacking in both agencies and they are the ones causing the problems. Individual bio's or wardens can bee good people, and want what is best for us, NONE of them have been willing to buck their leadership and talk about how we are being screwed.

I don't recall using the word "friend"...but I have and will continue to state very clearly that WDFW is the strongest ally sportsmen have in gaining control actions on wolf populations in Washington.  We (hunters, cattlemen, rural residents) need to find ways to support and help them manage wolves and ungulate populations using sound science.  We need to use legislative process to help wdfw manage wolves.  This means contacting legislators, governors etc. and voicing support when WDFW takes action (like removal of a wolf pack) to benefit hunters, livestock producers etc.  WDFW supports legislation to list wolves as big game animals so they can be managed like any other big game in this state...insert your criticism here   They have sold it to enviro groups as a way to levy higher fines if wolves are poached...which I think is clever...in reality it makes it easier/possible to manage wolves like big game...including hunting seasons.  Bottom line, I have seen no credible evidence that WDFW has any interest in not managing wolves responsibly and with respect to their potential impacts to ungulate populations.   

[luke_a]

I grew up in Ferndale and currently work in Ferndale adjacent to a WDFW wildlife area.  Numerous people that I work with claim to have seen and heard wolves in this area over the past few decades.  These are avid hunters and outdoorsmen, not city dwellers that can't tell the difference between a yote and a wolf.  I personally heard a call a couple weeks ago that I know was not a coyote, and my first thought was that it was a wolf.  I disregarded it until I remembered this thread, and started asking around here at work.  I still have my doubts, but I think it's a possibility.  The guys also tell me they had a Moose in this area back in the 90's.  Our employer has a large orchard and the moose would visit the orchard daily to eat the apples.  There's a thread on here somewhere about a moose on I5 near Blaine, not sure if it's the same moose, but could be. 

A few weeks ago a neighbor told me he saw a moose in our neighborhood and that there were numerous 911 calls reporting a moose a couple days later in a nearby area.

I think it's extremely rare for these animals to venture to this area, but it's definitely a possibility.  In the case of the wolf sightings in Ferndale, if there really are wolves here, they are most likely hybrids from the indian reservation a couple miles down the road.