Public service announcement: Small pups and Ecollars

[Stilly bay]

If you are going to take your puppy out to a pheasant release site or any  place that is full of new and confusing situations, I think it would be in your puppies best interest if you strapped the E collar around your own neck instead of his.
Then you could press that red button every time you call his name over and over again and you might just learn something and NOT screw your dog up in the process.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Bmcox86]

 

[Sportfury]

You were at Rochester then on Sunday.

Some dud(e) was in the trees yelling at his dog over and over again. That drives me more nuts than anything. If you can't control your dog you shouldn't be out with them period. It only ruins it for the rest of us.

[Happy Gilmore]

Nothing worse than the screamer. Always at high volume. Intentionally train quietly and when you use your voice loudly it has some meaning. Some folks just yell at their dogs all the time. You yell all the time you have nothing left when you need it.

I went hunting with a guy once who yelled non stop. Here, here, here, here, GOOD DOG, here, here, NO, no, no, Good dog, here, here, here all at high volume. .

All dog hears is blah, blah, no, blah, blah, blah, no, blah, blah, blah.....

[Houndhunter]

I yell at mine 

[Skyvalhunter]

Kind of like your kids right?

[Stilly bay]

You were at Rochester then on Sunday.

I was up North.

today some guy took his little three maybe four month pup out into the field to tag along with an older dog.

I was talking with another hunter when the little pup ran over to say hello to our dogs, then his owner started shouting after him and making him yelp with the Ecollar while the pup had no idea what was going on.

The way I saw it, that pup was busy being submissive to three older larger dogs that were interested in him and intimidating him and he probably completely lost track of where his owner was- not too mention that pup was way too young to wear an activated Ecollar in the first place.

[Happy Gilmore]

In the right hands many are started on e collar at 3-4 months with great success.

[Stilly bay]

In the right hands many are started on e collar at 3-4 months with great success.

Thats all well and good but this guy did not have the "right hands"

IMO 3 months is just too young, I don't care how right your hands are.

[Happy Gilmore]

In the right hands many are started on e collar at 3-4 months with great success.

Thats all well and good but this guy did not have the "right hands"

IMO 3 months is just too young, I don't care how right your hands are.

depends upon the dog, your training experience and your expectations of what level of performance you expect to achieve from training.

e-collar doesn't have to "burn" every push

[Heredoggydoggy]

Stilly Bay is right.  3 months is too young.  At that age the dog is seeing the world for the first time.  Exploring is natural and should not be discouraged as long as the pup's not in danger.

[JLS]

Some folks need to learn to put their pups in a position to succeed.  I'm starting a 4 month old pup right now, and would never think of taking him someplace chaotic to learn. 

I want somewhere that is relatively free of dangerous situations and distractions, other hunters, other dogs.  Too much for a pup to focus on and learn.

Maybe this guy needs to realize his e collar has other settings besides "orbit"?

[Special T]

Some folks need to learn to put their pups in a position to succeed.  I'm starting a 4 month old pup right now, and would never think of taking him someplace chaotic to learn. 

I want somewhere that is relatively free of dangerous situations and distractions, other hunters, other dogs.  Too much for a pup to focus on and learn.

Maybe this guy needs to realize his e collar has other settings besides "orbit"?

 

[Jonathan_S]

I've never ran bird dogs but it's hard to imagine a 3 month old pup being ready for anything but exploring and sniffing around.

Especially after training a few coonhounds and seeing how they are at 3 months   

[Stilly bay]

In the right hands many are started on e collar at 3-4 months with great success.

Thats all well and good but this guy did not have the "right hands"

IMO 3 months is just too young, I don't care how right your hands are.

depends upon the dog, your training experience and your expectations of what level of performance you expect to achieve from training.

e-collar doesn't have to "burn" every push

I will agree to disagree. IMO Even at 4 months a pup that is collar conditioned isn't collar conditioned enough.

Some folks need to learn to put their pups in a position to succeed.  I'm starting a 4 month old pup right now, and would never think of taking him someplace chaotic to learn. 

I want somewhere that is relatively free of dangerous situations and distractions, other hunters, other dogs.  Too much for a pup to focus on and learn.

Maybe this guy needs to realize his e collar has other settings besides "orbit"?

To this fellow's credit; at least he didn't bring the pup out at 8:00 am on a Saturday or Sunday.

I am all for exposing pups to new situations, that is exactly how they learn, but when you ad an ecollar into the mix it only ads to the confusion and chaos.
I don't care how big of a Pro you are and how well you think a pup is collar conditioned, at 3-4 months of age it isn't collar conditioned enough for the situation I described.

A lot of people get an Ecollar in their hands and forget all about the best training tool in the world - their legs!
 There is nothing wrong with chasing a dog down to get your point across. Or in yesterdays situation he could have just ran over and intervened to save the pup from a potential bite or shock therapy, but instead he just stood there like he was watching TV and flipping channels with the  Ecollar remote.

[JLS]

A lot of people get an Ecollar in their hands and forget all about the best training tool in the world - their legs!
 There is nothing wrong with chasing a dog down to get your point across.

That cracks me up.  My lab took off last year running pheasants and my e-collar wasn't working.  You can imagine the look of shock and fear on his face as I caught up to him a 1/4 mile later and the wrath of Dad descended on him in the best Brian Urlacher imitation I could muster.

[Stilly bay]

A lot of people get an Ecollar in their hands and forget all about the best training tool in the world - their legs!
 There is nothing wrong with chasing a dog down to get your point across.

That cracks me up.  My lab took off last year running pheasants and my e-collar wasn't working.  You can imagine the look of shock and fear on his face as I caught up to him a 1/4 mile later and the wrath of Dad descended on him in the best Brian Urlacher imitation I could muster.

 :chuckle:Yep! I like to chase them down every now and then to remind them that I can!

Also, what are you going to do when they misbehave and they don't have the magic collar on? Just yell their name over and over again until they are fully reminded that dad is nothing without the Ecollar? Just shut up and chase em down!

[jetjockey]

I stopped being able to chase my dog down at about 2-3 months old.  And I almost killed a horse trying to do it when she got older.    Thankfully, she learned to go with me.  At that  3 months old, the dog should be on a check cord.

[JLS]

I stopped being able to chase my dog down at about 2-3 months old.  And I almost killed a horse trying to do it when she got older.    Thankfully, she learned to go with me.  At that  3 months old, the dog should be on a check cord.

How does as pup learn to range out on a check cord?

[CoryTDF]

If you are going to take your puppy out to a pheasant release site or any  place that is full of new and confusing situations, I think it would be in your puppies best interest if you strapped the E collar around your own neck instead of his.
Then you could press that red button every time you call his name over and over again and you might just learn something and NOT screw your dog up in the process.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

[AspenBud]

I stopped being able to chase my dog down at about 2-3 months old.  And I almost killed a horse trying to do it when she got older.    Thankfully, she learned to go with me.  At that  3 months old, the dog should be on a check cord.

How does as pup learn to range out on a check cord?

A wise field trialer once told me the following.

You can reel in a wide ranging, high drive, dog but you can't teach a dog to run further from you if it's not genetically hardwired to do so.

You keep that check cord on the dog and in your hand until the dog comes back to you reliably when called. Once you have that down the check cord can be dropped and you can let the dog learn to hunt.

[jetjockey]

Not to mention a lot of trialers will keep a dog in until they are ready to let them go.  Many a dog had started out as a gun dog before moving out to an all age dog as they gained confidence.   They are like kids, as they grow older, more mature, and can handle adversity better, you give them more rope. 

[JJD]

If I have learned nothing else from training retrievers (not pro) over the past 35 yrs, its that not all dogs train the same.
You can say "generally", but never say never.  Many pros espouse e-collars prior to force fetch,  Many Force fetch as soon as the pups adult teeth are in, often before 6 months.
I have been witness to several pups who were mentally ready for the e-collar in the 4 month time frame.  Can't say I've noted any ready in the 3rd month though.

If the trainer is pissed off and yelling at the pup, and the pup is being even nicked multiple times, there IS something wrong.  Proper training has not proceeded the collar reinforcement.

Also keep in mind that no matter how well you try to simulate real hunting in your training scenarios, real hunting is a different animal, dogs sense it and can react differently than in training.  A point of great frustration for many hunter/trainers.  Used to see the same thing happen at tests quite often.  If you are ready for it and have preplanned what to do in the event pup does not behave properly, you and pup will both be better off.