Lab, Brittany, shorthair... what to do

[AspenBud]

Something to think about. If your dog is going to spend 30-90 days of the hunting season actually hunting, particularly if you're going to throw a fair amount of upland hunting into the mix, you would be well advised to look towards proven performance lines. You don't want a dog that can't keep up with that pace and starts to break down half way through.

I would stay away from 90 lbs labs and look for lines that hover between 50-65 lbs.

Also, if you look at pointing labs,  run, don't walk, from any pointing lab breeder who sells dogs that need to be "trained" to point. They should have that inclination as much as any Pointer, setter, and so on. There is a lot of snake oil being sold in that corner of the lab world these days. Be selective, there are some good and honest breeders producing them.

FWIW

[LndShrk]

Something to think about. If your dog is going to spend 30-90 days of the hunting season actually hunting, particularly if you're going to throw a fair amount of upland hunting into the mix, you would be well advised to look towards proven performance lines. You don't want a dog that can't keep up with that pace and starts to break down half way through.

I would stay away from 90 lbs labs and look for lines that hover between 50-65 lbs.

Also, if you look at pointing labs,  run, don't walk, from any pointing lab breeder who sells dogs that need to be "trained" to point. They should have that inclination as much as any Pointer, setter, and so on. There is a lot of snake oil being sold in that corner of the lab world these days. Be selective, there are some good and honest breeders producing them.

FWIW

Care to elaborate on the 90lb labs?

[Bill W]

I had this same "issue" back in 2002 and wanted to get the perfect dog.  I wasn't sure which breed and also then once I selected the dog, would it hunt?

I found a 2 1/2 year old lab that needed a new home and was said "hunted".  Echo was a very pretty, well mannered lab but didn't seem to have much fire in her.  Later I found out she had a very good nose but didn't get too excited when on the trail of a bird.  Her going to sniff grass walk was just slightly less than the "I'm hot on the trail of a bird" trot and hard to tell the difference.

She's dead now but for the record, was a good duck hunter/retriever, excellent, but low key, on quail and pheasants, a very good house dog, and smart and willing to please.  She was so smart that I really didn't train her to hunt, she trained me.

The new one is Molly the wild dog and it's a bit harder to train her.  We picked up Molly at 6 1/2 weeks old.

You can always get two dogs...or three if you don't get the right one first.  Just make sure to get reservations in on your favorite chair should the dogs be housed inside.

[AspenBud]

Something to think about. If your dog is going to spend 30-90 days of the hunting season actually hunting, particularly if you're going to throw a fair amount of upland hunting into the mix, you would be well advised to look towards proven performance lines. You don't want a dog that can't keep up with that pace and starts to break down half way through.

I would stay away from 90 lbs labs and look for lines that hover between 50-65 lbs.

Also, if you look at pointing labs,  run, don't walk, from any pointing lab breeder who sells dogs that need to be "trained" to point. They should have that inclination as much as any Pointer, setter, and so on. There is a lot of snake oil being sold in that corner of the lab world these days. Be selective, there are some good and honest breeders producing them.

FWIW

Care to elaborate on the 90lb labs?

Bigger dogs tire sooner, they tend to have more problems with bad hips and elbows, and even instances of torn cruciate ligaments seem to go up. The extra weight can also prevent a dog from being smooth on its feet which can screw with its gait and thereby affect its stamina. It does not matter if the weight is muscle or fat, it's weight.

That's not to say people don't successfully use the heavier dogs for long durations, but I think people often confuse drive for athleticism. A driven dog can overcome a lot of physical limitations but eventually that will falter.

But if you're going to use that dog day in and day out for a variety of hunting I wouldn't want to crack 65 lbs. The lighter dog will have less weight to move around which leads to less energy spent, their joints won't be taking as much of a daily pounding which means you might get a few more years of hunting with them, and you'll spend less in food.

There are always exceptions however.

[JLS]

Something to think about. If your dog is going to spend 30-90 days of the hunting season actually hunting, particularly if you're going to throw a fair amount of upland hunting into the mix, you would be well advised to look towards proven performance lines. You don't want a dog that can't keep up with that pace and starts to break down half way through.

I would stay away from 90 lbs labs and look for lines that hover between 50-65 lbs.

Also, if you look at pointing labs,  run, don't walk, from any pointing lab breeder who sells dogs that need to be "trained" to point. They should have that inclination as much as any Pointer, setter, and so on. There is a lot of snake oil being sold in that corner of the lab world these days. Be selective, there are some good and honest breeders producing them.

FWIW

Care to elaborate on the 90lb labs?

I will because I have one.

If they are a dedicated waterfowl dog, they are awesome.  My lab is a very strong swimmer and can really bust some ice if he needs to.  He also really shines in deep snow and cattails when we are pheasant hunting.  However, he suffers in big CRP and steep hills.  The biggest problem I've seen is overheating.  No matter how good he is conditioned, he overheats and once he does his performance really drops.  Also, his feet take a beating in the rocks because they aren't that big relative to his weight.  My GWP has huge paws.

[87Ford]

If they are a dedicated waterfowl dog, they are awesome.  My lab is a very strong swimmer and can really bust some ice if he needs to.  He also really shines in deep snow and cattails when we are pheasant hunting.  However, he suffers in big CRP and steep hills.  The biggest problem I've seen is overheating.  No matter how good he is conditioned, he overheats and once he does his performance really drops.  Also, his feet take a beating in the rocks because they aren't that big relative to his weight.  My GWP has huge paws.

This is well put and I agree.  My Lab is about 85 lbs and overheating is a problem for him too.  He's good for a couple hours of hard hunting in the morning.  When it begins to warm up, especially in the early season, he just gets too hot..  Lots of water and an irrigation ditch here and there keeps him going though.  I just hunt him accordingly and know when to back off.  I will say that he is crazy for pheasants, has an incredible nose, and is an absolute beast in the cattails and brush.  He's plenty of dog for me and at times he's hard to keep up with.

[AspenBud]

I suspect you guys would have a similar problem with them in the woods after a while.

Think of it this way. You can hand the ball to a lineman and he can plow through and get some yards. But you'll have a more productive day if you have Barry Sanders or Ricky Watters running the ball instead.

[Happy Gilmore]

I suspect you guys would have a similar problem with them in the woods after a while.

Think of it this way. You can hand the ball to a lineman and he can plow through and get some yards. But you'll have a more productive day if you have Barry Sanders or Ricky Watters running the ball instead.

What kind of dogs do you have and to what level(titled) are they trained?

[MLHSN]

How do GWP's do in the summer when it get's eastern WA hot?  I'm also juggling between these three breeds.  I would like one that can hike with me year around from deep snow to hot summer days.

[Tman]

My GWP does heat up in the summer, but handles mid range to cold temps well. Just wish i had the same amount of energy.

[87Ford]

I suspect you guys would have a similar problem with them in the woods after a while.

Think of it this way. You can hand the ball to a lineman and he can plow through and get some yards. But you'll have a more productive day if you have Barry Sanders or Ricky Watters running the ball instead.

I understand what you're saying..  I wouldn't describe my big Lab as a "lineman" though.  He's more of an Earl Campbell and gets way more than a few yards.  He is a beast in the heavy brush and cattails where I like to hunt and heck, after a couple hours of hiking through that crap I need a break too.  I guess it depends on your style of hunting.  For ducks and phez in the nasty stuff I'll take a big athletic Lab every time..

[Skyvalhunter]

The same will be said for a guy hunting with the other dogs

[Stilly bay]

Something to think about. If your dog is going to spend 30-90 days of the hunting season actually hunting, particularly if you're going to throw a fair amount of upland hunting into the mix, you would be well advised to look towards proven performance lines. You don't want a dog that can't keep up with that pace and starts to break down half way through.

I would stay away from 90 lbs labs and look for lines that hover between 50-65 lbs.

Also, if you look at pointing labs,  run, don't walk, from any pointing lab breeder who sells dogs that need to be "trained" to point. They should have that inclination as much as any Pointer, setter, and so on. There is a lot of snake oil being sold in that corner of the lab world these days. Be selective, there are some good and honest breeders producing them.

FWIW

Care to elaborate on the 90lb labs?

Bigger dogs tire sooner, they tend to have more problems with bad hips and elbows, and even instances of torn cruciate ligaments seem to go up. The extra weight can also prevent a dog from being smooth on its feet which can screw with its gait and thereby affect its stamina. It does not matter if the weight is muscle or fat, it's weight.

That's not to say people don't successfully use the heavier dogs for long durations, but I think people often confuse drive for athleticism. A driven dog can overcome a lot of physical limitations but eventually that will falter.

But if you're going to use that dog day in and day out for a variety of hunting I wouldn't want to crack 65 lbs. The lighter dog will have less weight to move around which leads to less energy spent, their joints won't be taking as much of a daily pounding which means you might get a few more years of hunting with them, and you'll spend less in food.

There are always exceptions however.

I would agree to certain extent, since anytime you get too faraway from the breed standard things have the potential to unravel.
also I have yet to see a true 90lb lab that was anywhere close to being in shape. Most 90 pounders that I come across are either an exaggeration by the owner or an obese dog that should weigh in at around 70lbs.

A perfectly fit and conditioned lab weighing 90lbs wouldn't be able to keep up with one these little "performance labs" that are popping up everywhere, but then neither would a springer spaniel.

[Happy Gilmore]

again- generalizations with little backing it up.

There are numerous 80lbs field trial dogs which had long very successful careers without sustaining major injuries. Injuries are just as common with small field trial labs as they are their larger counterparts.

"English" show labs typically don't get worked enough to sustain injuries. The field trial dogs are heavily worked year round, day in day out. Injuries happen. Some folks will attest it to bloodlines. Particular lines are claimed to be prone to elbow injuries while others are not. I'm no lab breeder so I don't research it as heavily as my friends who are hard core pedigree almanacs.

I know of many Chessies who never suffered any injuries and were trialed and hunted all their lives. My Male's mother placed in her last field trial at 10 years old and has spent the last two seasons hunting. She's still kicking pushing 13 and 80+lbs. Then again, all good lab and chessie breeders do their research and work towards a long lasting dog by knowing the pedigree and doing hip, eye, elbow, EIC testing diligently on every sire/dam.

Ask around how many pointer folks do it and they'll tell you its' because retriever people inbred all the dogs and caused the problems amongst other varied excuses.

[Stilly bay]

again- generalizations with little backing it up.

your examples were 80lb dogs which fall within the standard for males.