CURRENTLY WDFW FEDERAL AGENTS SHOOTING 15 bulls in Skagit River Unit!!!!

[LOVEMYLABXS]

Said like a true flatlander. First of all, a good many of the farmers and their parents before them where here before the elk. Secondly, we need farmers to provide affordable food for us and we should support them in doing that. Requiring someone to build fences to raise wheat isn't going to help keep my bread at $1.50/loaf. Next, the government doesn't allow farmers to randomly kill animals which eat their crops - there are regulations and permits are issued. City boys need to find out a little more about farming before they make sweeping statements about what farmers should or shouldn't do.
[/quote]

Interesting statement for not all drysiders live in the flatlands or are cityboys or have never been or worked on a wheat or cattle farm/ranch. That's like me saying all wetsider can't drive in the snow   

I have no idea what area 4991 is like as far as open land  compared to how much is  farm land or hobby farms??? But from reading thru 14 pages so far,  I'll guess most is small plots.

This incident really was mismanagement and not thought out well at all  in either the bow hunt or the sniper hunt.  You will never make everyone happy either hunter/landowners/ or animal lovers. Anyways it sounds like the elk did way to well and need to be thinned out.

Relocation doesn't seem an idea that most seem will work to get numbers down, so how about setting up 2 new units one where the population of people is high and one that is more open for public hunting. These 2 units could be setup with season that don't coinside with regular season so more Game Wardens could be use to regulate what is going on. In populated areas maybe a season where only muzzleloaders or a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ( very effective weapon at close range) and bow could be used. Landowners that let a few hunters at a time in could get extra damage tags if they wanted that they could use during a certain time aftewards if they still have a problem but would need to notify the local GW so they know what's going on, if you don't let hunters on I guess you really don't have a problem and need the tags. This could be a combined muzzy/modern season any elk and hunter orange required ( easier for GWs to keep track of most hunters). The other less populated area could have an any elk season for all 3 weapons either running a coupe of weeks  each or maybe on for a month all legal hunting methods allowed hunter orange would also be required. Probably the 3 seperate seasons would be the one most hunters would rather see then everyone lumped together. just an idea the elk numbers would be reduced and might stay away from  where their not wanted . hunter would have a good chance to fill their tags and landowners would have less elk to deal with

[BOWHUNTER45]

Said like a true flatlander. First of all, a good many of the farmers and their parents before them where here before the elk. Secondly, we need farmers to provide affordable food for us and we should support them in doing that. Requiring someone to build fences to raise wheat isn't going to help keep my bread at $1.50/loaf. Next, the government doesn't allow farmers to randomly kill animals which eat their crops - there are regulations and permits are issued. City boys need to find out a little more about farming before they make sweeping statements about what farmers should or shouldn't do.

Interesting statement for not all drysiders live in the flatlands or are cityboys or have never been or worked on a wheat or cattle farm/ranch. That's like me saying all wetsider can't drive in the snow   

I have no idea what area 4991 is like as far as open land  compared to how much is  farm land or hobby farms??? But from reading thru 14 pages so far,  I'll guess most is small plots.

This incident really was mismanagement and not thought out well at all  in either the bow hunt or the sniper hunt.  You will never make everyone happy either hunter/landowners/ or animal lovers. Anyways it sounds like the elk did way to well and need to be thinned out.

Relocation doesn't seem an idea that most seem will work to get numbers down, so how about setting up 2 new units one where the population of people is high and one that is more open for public hunting. These 2 units could be setup with season that don't coinside with regular season so more Game Wardens could be use to regulate what is going on. In populated areas maybe a season where only muzzleloaders or a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ( very effective weapon at close range) and bow could be used. Landowners that let a few hunters at a time in could get extra damage tags if they wanted that they could use during a certain time aftewards if they still have a problem but would need to notify the local GW so they know what's going on, if you don't let hunters on I guess you really don't have a problem and need the tags. This could be a combined muzzy/modern season any elk and hunter orange required ( easier for GWs to keep track of most hunters). The other less populated area could have an any elk season for all 3 weapons either running a coupe of weeks  each or maybe on for a month all legal hunting methods allowed hunter orange would also be required. Probably the 3 seperate seasons would be the one most hunters would rather see then everyone lumped together. just an idea the elk numbers would be reduced and might stay away from  where their not wanted . hunter would have a good chance to fill their tags and landowners would have less elk to deal with
[/quote] :yike:I think I am sending this one to the legislators ....man I like you already 

[BOWHUNTER45]

like I said .. a lot of this area is heavily timbered...once those elk are pushed out of the bottoms and up the hill you better be prepared to put on some boot leather ...and that's why they should have a season of some sort to keep the elk back in the timbered areas ...hunting pressure is the only solution ...and the hunting should be in the timber not in some farmers field ....OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND (KINDA THING ) Birrrrr Dirrrrrr  man I may have a heart attack over how stupid people are ....but politics and Indians are what runs this show 

[pianoman9701]

Relocation doesn't seem an idea that most seem will work to get numbers down, so how about setting up 2 new units one where the population of people is high and one that is more open for public hunting. These 2 units could be setup with season that don't coinside with regular season so more Game Wardens could be use to regulate what is going on. In populated areas maybe a season where only muzzleloaders or a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ( very effective weapon at close range) and bow could be used. Landowners that let a few hunters at a time in could get extra damage tags if they wanted that they could use during a certain time aftewards if they still have a problem but would need to notify the local GW so they know what's going on, if you don't let hunters on I guess you really don't have a problem and need the tags. This could be a combined muzzy/modern season any elk and hunter orange required ( easier for GWs to keep track of most hunters). The other less populated area could have an any elk season for all 3 weapons either running a coupe of weeks  each or maybe on for a month all legal hunting methods allowed hunter orange would also be required. Probably the 3 seperate seasons would be the one most hunters would rather see then everyone lumped together. just an idea the elk numbers would be reduced and might stay away from  where their not wanted . hunter would have a good chance to fill their tags and landowners would have less elk to deal with

Why not just let the hunters and farmers kill the problem elk? Do we really need to now define new units and come up with tons of new regulations? There are simply too many elk down low. Let hunters work with farmers to kill them.

And as far as the farmers who don't want to work with hunters is concerned, that's their decision to make with their own land. They may have good reasons from past experience as to why they don't want people they don't know shooting on their land. They should be issued permits to cull elk which cause them crop damage. Just because you or I want these farmers to accept hunters to solve this problem doesn't mean we should turn our backs on them when they don't agree.

[pianoman9701]

like I said .. a lot of this area is heavily timbered...once those elk are pushed out of the bottoms and up the hill you better be prepared to put on some boot leather ...and that's why they should have a season of some sort to keep the elk back in the timbered areas ...hunting pressure is the only solution ...and the hunting should be in the timber not in some farmers field ....OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND (KINDA THING ) Birrrrr Dirrrrrr  man I may have a heart attack over how stupid people are ....but politics and Indians are what runs this show 

But the elk don't have enough forage up in the timber. Why do you think they'll go where there isn't enough food to eat while there's plenty in the bottoms, all grown just for them?

[ghosthunter]

Not saying any of that is a bad idea or would not work.

But I think that these land owners are so pissed and this has been dragged on for so  long they are just fed up.

First if I am a land owner I am saying look, the elk were not here when I bought my land. The state brought them in. Why do I have to put up with elk?
They bought there land for the quiet, now they have to have hunters on their property to solve the states created problem.

Elk break down fences and do damage year round. This herd is on the valley floor all year. You can see them in June driving the hwy way. Sure some go up. Also remember this is not just hwy 20. These elk are in Acme area too.

This is a huge problem. In the end the only solution will be kill every elk on the valley floor   Which will destroy this herd.

I talked to a old timer the other day. He said we never had trouble with the elk when Scott Paper Main Line was open to the public. And thus the crust of the problem.

The road closures both on Serra Pacific(old Scott Paper) and DNR lands have made this problem worse. When the roads were open and the herd was hunted no problems.

I think the hunting solution will only work with public access being improved. The state should try to get SP lands open for a two week elk season. And the DNR needs to stop closing roads. Coupled with pressure on the valley floor.

And what role do the safety zones play in all this. Hurn's Field just lures the elk to the valley floor.

[LOVEMYLABXS]

Relocation doesn't seem an idea that most seem will work to get numbers down, so how about setting up 2 new units one where the population of people is high and one that is more open for public hunting. These 2 units could be setup with season that don't coinside with regular season so more Game Wardens could be use to regulate what is going on. In populated areas maybe a season where only muzzleloaders or a 12 ga shotgun with slugs ( very effective weapon at close range) and bow could be used. Landowners that let a few hunters at a time in could get extra damage tags if they wanted that they could use during a certain time aftewards if they still have a problem but would need to notify the local GW so they know what's going on, if you don't let hunters on I guess you really don't have a problem and need the tags. This could be a combined muzzy/modern season any elk and hunter orange required ( easier for GWs to keep track of most hunters). The other less populated area could have an any elk season for all 3 weapons either running a coupe of weeks  each or maybe on for a month all legal hunting methods allowed hunter orange would also be required. Probably the 3 seperate seasons would be the one most hunters would rather see then everyone lumped together. just an idea the elk numbers would be reduced and might stay away from  where their not wanted . hunter would have a good chance to fill their tags and landowners would have less elk to deal with

Why not just let the hunters and farmers kill the problem elk? Do we really need to now define new units and come up with tons of new regulations? There are simply too many elk down low. Let hunters work with farmers to kill them.

And as far as the farmers who don't want to work with hunters is concerned, that's their decision to make with their own land. They may have good reasons from past experience as to why they don't want people they don't know shooting on their land. They should be issued permits to cull elk which cause them crop damage. Just because you or I want these farmers to accept hunters to solve this problem doesn't mean we should turn our backs on them when they don't agree.

PM I really think we are on the same page. You asked for ideas to fix the problem so I'm just throwing ideas out . I posted an idea which can more then likely be improved on it's just a starting post. The land owners can decide who they want in and what kind of weapon they use. All usage would be by writin permisson only and if after the season they still have a problem and need damage tags maybe they could contact the game department with info on how many hunters they let in and what was taken then they could get more damage tags. Hey if they only let family or friends in they are showing they are trying.

I don't think just giving out damage tags is going to fix the problem. Culling a few elk won't solve the problem it'll more then likely just push elk from one property to another. The problem has been created with the elk! do new areas and regs need to be put in place? Maybe? Do they have to let just anyone in? NO they can decide who and what kind of weapon can be used. But no I don't think they should figure the Game department should have to fix the problem by bring in snipers but then again they shouldn't be allowed to just shoot and leave them. Invite friends and relates they know and show they are also trying is all I'm saying. It's to late to say this is a problem and no one come up with an idea that will help fix it. If you see a way of modifing my idea PLEASE fell free to adjust it so it can work. Here again I'm just trying to show some ideas.

Mike

[pianoman9701]

I get it Mike and I agree that we're on the same page. I just want to be clear that it's not the farmers who've created this problem, not the car drivers, nor the hunters, nor the residents, nor the conservation volunteers. The responsibility for wildlife issues and for how they're managed lies with the DFW. By allowing gunners to cull these elk instead of licensed hunters, they've robbed the hunters of opportunities to fill their freezers and help
solve a big problem at the same time.

[huntnphool]

The responsibility for wildlife issues and for how they're managed lies with the DFW. By allowing gunners to cull these elk instead of licensed hunters, they've robbed the hunters of opportunities to fill their freezers and help
solve a big problem at the same time.

+1

[LOVEMYLABXS]

I get it Mike and I agree that we're on the same page. I just want to be clear that it's not the farmers who've created this problem, not the car drivers, nor the hunters, nor the residents, nor the conservation volunteers. The responsibility for wildlife issues and for how they're managed lies with the DFW. By allowing gunners to cull these elk instead of licensed hunters, they've robbed the hunters of opportunities to fill their freezers and help
solve a big problem at the same time.

See I knew we were looking at this basically from the same point of view, now how to fix a problem? It's a plan that didn't work and now needs to be fixed and how to do that is the problem. Give me an idea how to modify my idea that work. Likie I said I know nothing of this area or what the lay of the land is but it's now a problem so. Do we just give landowners the right to shoot all of them then have someone come in and haul it off or figure a way to let folks that want the meat harvest it?

[huntnphool]

 Just as the city government did with the old ladies parking garage in Seattle, eminent domain the land, take out the farms and give the animals more room and hunters access.

[pianoman9701]

Just as the city government did with the old ladies parking garage in Seattle, eminent domain the land, take out the farms and give the animals more room and hunters access.

  Yes, because that's what the government uses eminent domain for, helping out the citizens.  Oh God, this is funny stuff.

[LOVEMYLABXS]

Just as the city government did with the old ladies parking garage in Seattle, eminent domain the land, take out the farms and give the animals more room and hunters access.

Great idea now we go back to the Native Americans having eminent domain and the rest of us can just go to the store and buy beef HOW CAN WE FIX THE PROBLEM??

[pianoman9701]

I get it Mike and I agree that we're on the same page. I just want to be clear that it's not the farmers who've created this problem, not the car drivers, nor the hunters, nor the residents, nor the conservation volunteers. The responsibility for wildlife issues and for how they're managed lies with the DFW. By allowing gunners to cull these elk instead of licensed hunters, they've robbed the hunters of opportunities to fill their freezers and help
solve a big problem at the same time.

See I knew we were looking at this basically from the same point of view, now how to fix a problem? It's a plan that didn't work and now needs to be fixed and how to do that is the problem. Give me an idea how to modify my idea that work. Likie I said I know nothing of this area or what the lay of the land is but it's now a problem so. Do we just give landowners the right to shoot all of them then have someone come in and haul it off or figure a way to let folks that want the meat harvest it?

I think it's quite possible that the target herd size for that area of 1900 animals can't be supported by the available forage outside and above the bottoms where they're now creating the havoc. The DFW would need to re-analyze what the carrying capacity would be given the current state of the surrounding forest. I'm guessing that the number might be half of their present goal, but have no real idea. I just know that it seems really obvious the animals are being forced into the bottoms for food. None of us will know numbers anytime soon because for this to happen, the DFW would have to admit to making a costly mistake and they're not going to do that without some king of congressional mandate to do so. It's the same with the wolf problem. Everyone who's paying attention can see that they're already way in over their heads, yet they're unwilling to come out and say, "we screwed up. 15 pairs and a 3-year waiting period is idiotic and we were smoking crack with wolf lovers when we came up with that".

So, in the meantime, you treat the symptoms. You shoot animals which are creating problems and you continue to shoot them until they either get the idea and leave or until you kill enough so that the remaining animals are sustained by available forage in the forest and scared to come out near man.

[cowboybilly]

http://www.goskagit.com/all_access/feds-swoop-in-to-kill-rogue-elk-in-day-creek/article_74c7de25-68a2-58fc-bb2c-d1720e216daf.html