Eastern Washington Elk

[CAMPMEAT]

Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

It's called, WDFW.

[Button Nubbs]

The main reason the success rate is so low is there are too many hunters! Period. Not enough elk.

Again, why do other states feel the need to manage by permit only hunting? Other states that actually have more elk and less people than we do? But we don't need to do that here? Why are we so different that we can continue on with basically the same management system that we've had since the 1950's?

If that was is the case then why are there people (several on this site) who are successful every year? Itdosent seem to be a problem with the lack of elk, more so the lack of effort. Well just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

[6x6in6]

The main reason the success rate is so low is there are too many hunters! Period. Not enough elk.

Again, why do other states feel the need to manage by permit only hunting? Other states that actually have more elk and less people than we do? But we don't need to do that here? Why are we so different that we can continue on with basically the same management system that we've had since the 1950's?

If that was is the case then why are there people (several on this site) who are successful every year? Itdosent seem to be a problem with the lack of elk, more so the lack of effort. Well just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

And some of us are very successful here and out of state but we don't talk about it very much. 
 

[stuckalot]

Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

I don't think there is a truly reasonable answer bobcat as to why.
The majority of elk hunters want the opportunity to hunt every year.  It may be just that simple, right there.

The WDFW needs to step away from the thought of managing for opportunity (revenue) and manage for a quality hunting experience before anything will ever change.

By whose definition of "quality"?   And yes so far all of the surveys wdfw has done have shown that people would rather have the opportunity to hunt spikes every year than wait for the opportunity for a "quality" hunt every few years.  Which herds in this state are not meeting objectives currently due to hunter harvest?

[6x6in6]

Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

I don't think there is a truly reasonable answer bobcat as to why.
The majority of elk hunters want the opportunity to hunt every year.  It may be just that simple, right there.

The WDFW needs to step away from the thought of managing for opportunity (revenue) and manage for a quality hunting experience before anything will ever change.

By whose definition of "quality"?   

Mine.
You cherry picked out the points of my post for your comments and questions like I just did.  But if you had left the whole thing there, you might have caught the "Personally" lead in that I had.

[soccerftw123]

I would also be more happy with hunting washington if the predators were controlled. I wish there was a way we could bring back bear baiting and hunt cougars with hounds. To bad we live in a liberal state ruled by Seattle.

[mdbuck5x5]

The reason for going to permit only would be number 1- to limit hunting pressure and decrease harvest. This would lead to higher numbers of elk, at least in areas that have the carrying capacity for more animals. It's pretty selfish in my opinion to think that you deserve to kill an elk every single year, when the average hunter in this state kills an elk once every twenty years. It's not about making it more "easy." It would be about managing each GMU by limiting the harvest, which they DO NOT do now. The distribution of hunters is 100% random, the WDFW does not control that in any way. As more and more of the private timber company land goes to access by permit only, the problem is going to get worse. If you hunt public land expect to have a lot more company in the future!

Sorry I don't tend to get into arguments but this statement in bold is probably one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever seen. I understand this is your opinion but for one where the heck do you get those numbers from? And two I'm willing to bet that most of those average hunters you talk about are road hunters which probably means that a high percentage of them won't shoot an elk year in and year out!

[bobcat]

The reason for going to permit only would be number 1- to limit hunting pressure and decrease harvest. This would lead to higher numbers of elk, at least in areas that have the carrying capacity for more animals. It's pretty selfish in my opinion to think that you deserve to kill an elk every single year, when the average hunter in this state kills an elk once every twenty years. It's not about making it more "easy." It would be about managing each GMU by limiting the harvest, which they DO NOT do now. The distribution of hunters is 100% random, the WDFW does not control that in any way. As more and more of the private timber company land goes to access by permit only, the problem is going to get worse. If you hunt public land expect to have a lot more company in the future!

Sorry I don't tend to get into arguments but this statement in bold is probably one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever seen. I understand this is your opinion but for one where the heck do you get those numbers from? And two I'm willing to bet that most of those average hunters you talk about are road hunters which probably means that a high percentage of them won't shoot an elk year in and year out!

You can look at the harvest reports if you want numbers. But the point is, this state has too many hunters and not enough elk. Period. Why else do we have spike only seasons on the eastside? And here on the westside units that are so crowded that I don't see how anyone could possibly enjoy their hunt.

Again, why is it that states with more elk and less people than we have here, have had to resort to permit only elk hunting, yet we continue to have over the counter tags and general seasons that have no limitations whatsoever on the number of hunters in each GMU at a particular time.

There are people who have said they feel they deserve to hunt elk every single year. Why? That's what I'm questioning. Just because someone is able to kill an elk every year means he should be allowed to hunt every year? That makes no sense but that seems to be what a lot of people are saying. And that's what I said seemed selfish to me.

And yes, that is only my opinion. I sure don't think it's "ridiculous" and I think a lot of people feel the same way. This is why many people don't hunt elk in this state but instead go to other states. The elk management in this state is a total joke.

[splitshot]

what elk, the so called master hunters shot all of them.  mike w

[kentrek]

Its interesting how a lot of you guys like the quality over quantity idea in regards to management of game animals but then prefere the quantity over quality aproach to jobs in washington...

I know its a complete different topic but its all resource allocation

Just a thought

[Heredoggydoggy]

what elk, the so called master hunters shot all of them.  mike w

And the few they missed will be eaten by wolves.  Soon you won't have to worry about hunting elk.  There won't be any...

[PA BEN]

If we go permit only you will be sitting on the sideline for along time wishing you could hunt.. Wanting to hunt bulls go to CO, MT, OR, WY, ETC. Be happy that you can hunt each year.

 

Thank you! Somebody with some sense!

[dvolmer]

Bobcat has mentioned something on this thread that is very important and hasn't been very well addressed.  People on this thread talk of Utah, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, and other western states and try to compare there systems to ours and then figure how we are all messed up.  If we were comparing apples to apples they would have a great argument.  The problem is that we are comparing apples to oranges and it doesn't work that way.  I hunt here in my home state for elk for over 25 years and have in the last 6 or so years started hunting in Montana and Wyoming.  We here in Washington have a population issue that none of the other states everyone is talking about has and it is one of and probably the biggest factor in this equation and that population issue isn't animals either it is people.  We have close to 10 times as many people in this state as some of our neighbors have and I know we have double or more than Oregon who comes in second behind us and Oregon has much more habitat than Us also.  It just adds up to poor hunting opportunities and a lot less public land with a lot of pressure and lower quality animals unless you happen to get real lucky and draw some wonderfull quality tag.  If you have some special access opportunity it is helpfull and yes like some say, 10% of the people seem to shoot 90% of the animals year in and out. This is due to many factors that we could discuss for hours.  I have been blessed to shoot some real nice bulls here in this state and some of that has been due to being very lucky in our draw system and some of it has to do with doing my homework and working my butt off.  We are so fragile in this state that things like tribal hunting, predators, and a variety of other things can easily upset the hunting opportunities here that so many of us want but yet there is such limited areas and animals to fulfill those desires.  WDFW has their hands full for sure and I am not happy with a lot of the things they come up with but at the same time not sure what the best thing would be for out state in circumstances that we live these days.  Sorry no great answers from me other than if you do your homework you will find that the out of state hunting is more in your reach than you all realize and the costs are not as high as you might imagine.

[gonehuntin68]

The idea behind the spike only rule is that 90% of spikes die annually. Some from hunting, some from just being young and dumb. It's just a fact of life.

I have been hunting the BLues since '96 or '97 and can tell you the spike only rule does not hurt the bull numbers. In my opinion the largest factor on the # of mature bulls are the indians. If you don't believe me take a drive to the Blues in late September and see for your self.

I would also love to see Eastern WA go to a draw only for any antlered elk.

 

[JM]

As I don't agree with the way some tribes conduct their hunting seasons (yakimas) I do know that we aren't the only state with native hunting. So how you can factor that in as an excuse for this state?