Eastern Washington Elk

[jstone]

Tell me why every year I hunt the taneum and I go deep but see less and less elk. Used to see bulls pushing cows all the time now I am lucky to see many? They say the herd is ok but why is it harder to find them during bow or muzzy season. And I am way past the gates?

[Houndhunter]

Just put a feather in your hat, and you can shoot what ever you want!

[GoPlayOutside]

As stated earlier, Washington has a unique dynamic that Montana, Wyoming, etc don't have......Seattle, Tacoma, Spokane, etc....population.

We have a huge population compared to the size of our state, and the geographic locations of the elk.  The elk masses are found on the west coast and the central wa. mountain range.  Come time for the "very limited" hunting seasons, the whole hunting population head to the same general areas to hunt.

Wash. needs to limit tags per unit (maybe first come, first serve...like Idaho).  I'm not saying a very limited amount of tags...but do something.
However, WDFW seems to only work on behalf of their Revenue Dept., with less concern for their game management.

[ScottyG]

Where is the big problem? 400 inch bulls? 200 inch bucks?

The elk are doing great in my unit, deer numbers are on the rebound and getting close to the early 90'S

I have no problem hunting spikes. By going permit only you still won't kill an animal every time you have a tag...

I'm with RT on this one.  I've been hunting the same area in WA for 30+ years.  There are more big bulls wandering our area's hills today than at any time since we started.  At the beginning, it was very rare to see a bull and rarer still to see a truly big bull.  Then things went to spike only tags and draw tags for big bulls.  I believe overall elk numbers are higher now than at any time in those 30 years.  I'm convinced the spike only seasons with limited big bull draw tags is the reason for the improvement in the number of bulls and the overall herd quality. 

I'd trade the antler restriction for a healthy heard and the opportunity to just see the big boys on an annual basis.  You don't really have to kill them to appreciate them.  Spikes and cows taste better anyway.  Most of the recent years, I don't think that anyone that hunts out of our camp comes away feeling that they experienced poor hunting.  Usually, its quite the opposite with many stories of the huge bulls.  People new to our camp always ask why there is a spike only limit when it seems like there are more branch bulls in our area than spikes.  Then we tell them what it used to be like and they understand.

I hunt both Washington and Oregon, so I see how both sytems work.  I hunt WA more than I hunt Oregon because I grew up there and my family members all hunt WA.  Oregon does give me the opportunity to hunt a big bull every 2-3 years on it's east side, but I can't really say that its better hunting than where I hunt in Washington from the standpoint of number of animals seen or lack of hunting pressure.  I'll admit that horn hunting has merit but its certainly not the only measure of a worthy hunt.  If you were to visit some of the different Oregon hunting internet chat sites, you'd see that many, many Oregonians are very disgruntled with the state of the hunting and herds in Oregon with most of the same concerns... poaching, predators, treaty hunting, too many roads, too much privatized land, too many hunters etc.  A common complaint is about point creep in the draw system down here.  The grass is somewhat different on the other side of the state line, but I'm not certain I'd say its better.

My opinion is that WA has got it very close to right in their method of allocation of elk tags... for WA's situation.  The improvement in elk herd numbers and big bull counts in the area I hunt speaks to the appropriateness of the rules.

For those that wish to hunt branched antlers every year, it does mean making a commitment to the west side brush, NE corner, or investing time and resources in an out of state trip.  That is neither the end of the world or an unsolvable problem. 

If its the hunting pressure that's got you upset, that can usually be solved with a little research and getting comfortable with hiking for about an hour in the dark.

[WSU]

Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

It works in Oregon because there are a lot more elk and a lot less people.  Many of the draw units are very easy to draw.  And, the westside is mostly general season with no draw.  Oregon just has a lot more options.

[bobcat]

Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

It works in Oregon because there are a lot more elk and a lot less people.  Many of the draw units are very easy to draw.  And, the westside is mostly general season with no draw.  Oregon just has a lot more options.

Which is why we have even more reason to distribute and limit hunters in a more managed way, rather than the random, free for all it is now.


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[csaaphill]

from what I know they did it to up the bull cow ratio and older bulls not sure how it works but have seen some awesome bulls gotten since they've reopened special permits for any bulls.
That said I'd like them to change things up, but not permit only crap Oregon sucks! for how they manage their hunting. seems like it's pretty much first come first served when it comes to who gets deer and elk permits.
I like it over the counter leave it alone!

[ScottyG]

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=569537

Attached is a pretty good example of the kind of dialogue that you can find among Oregonians related to the Oregon draw system.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

[pd]

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=569537

Attached is a pretty good example of the kind of dialogue that you can find among Oregonians related to the Oregon draw system.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Thank you for posting that link!  Very informative.  The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the river.

[KopperBuck]

Bingo. It's frustrating to say the least.

[bobcat]

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=569537

Attached is a pretty good example of the kind of dialogue that you can find among Oregonians related to the Oregon draw system.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Thank you for posting that link!  Very informative.  The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the river.

Actually, it is. They have much better hunting than we do, and that's due mostly because they have draw only hunts for deer and elk on the east side of the state.

If you read the ifish thread you would have seen that many of the posts are saying they would like to do away with the general season hunts and make EVERYTHING by draw only, including archery hunts and deer and elk on the west side of the state.

[et1702]

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=569537

Attached is a pretty good example of the kind of dialogue that you can find among Oregonians related to the Oregon draw system.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Thank you for posting that link!  Very informative.  The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the river.

Actually, it is. They have much better hunting than we do, and that's due mostly because they have draw only hunts for deer and elk on the east side of the state.

If you read the ifish thread you would have seen that many of the posts are saying they would like to do away with the general season hunts and make EVERYTHING by draw only, including archery hunts and deer and elk on the west side of the state.

Deer on east side of Oregon is draw only.  But, there are several over-the-counter eastside areas where you can hunt bull elk every year with a bow.

Bob, I agree that WDFW is doing a terrible job managing our elk and deer resources.  But, I definitely disagree with "draw only" for everybody east and west in WA.  As Dave V. mentioned, the issue really isn't necessarily number of animals, it's number of people we have in this state!  Too many!!!  If we went to draw only everywhere, the best units would be just like trying to draw a "Quality Tag" and the remaining units would still be overcrowded vs. number of available critters (i.e., large number of hunters jammed into a small range of productive habitat).

ET

[bobcat]

I'm not sure how you can say the WDFW is doing a terrible job if you agree with the unlimited tags, and no management whatsoever system the WDFW is currently using.

Because they are doing a great job for the people who want to hunt deer and elk every single year, whether there are any animals to shoot or not.

In this state there is no need for planning ahead. Buy your deer and elk tags at anytime, even during the season, and hunt any GMU in the entire state. Well, in the case of elk you do have to pick east or west.

But that's it. That is the entire management scheme, that's how they manage the number of hunters in each GMU, and that is how the WDFW regulates the number of animals harvested by GMU. Which is to say, they DO NOT manage. All they do is sell licenses and tags. They're not concerned with excessive harvest in certain units.

You're right- we do have too many people in this state- too many people who want to hunt deer and elk every single year! And that is why we need some kind of management to limit the number of hunters by Game Management Unit.

[buckfvr]

Open general season in the region you live in, permit only for other regions.   

[vandeman17]

I think if the WDFW really did some management work and research then they could come up with how many deer or elk per unit of each sex should be taken to maintain the most healthy population. Then based on the success rate data, they would issue x amount of tags per unit that anyone would be able to apply for. When we bought our license, I think we should be able to apply for something like 5-10 units per species. People might complain that they can't draw a nicer unit but it would be their choice to apply for that versus one that maybe has a higher quota and less people that apply. I would also like to see not just a buck or bull tag but things like maybe two point buck only tags in some of the units where they have started to dominate. This would take some effort by WDFW but I think with the amount of money we spend that it isn't too much to expect...