Obama and Bloomberg Use December 14 to Promote Gun Control

[huntrights]

Obama and Bloomberg Use December 14 to Promote Gun Control

http://cms.nraila.org/legislation/federal-legislation/2013/12/obama-and-bloomberg-use-december-14-to-promote-gun-control.aspx

[Ricochet]

[huntnphool]

Pretty telling isn't it!

[deltaops]

They say history repeats itself, I only hope not in this case! 

[rbinhood]

It's unfortunate that people have to adopt an "us against them" mentality when it comes to the issue of gun ownership or gun control. There are plenty of people on both sides of the political isle who own guns. Comparing people of a certain political persuasion to Hitler does nothing to further a reasoned debate. Hitler also was very effective at dividing people, and making certain ethnic groups the scapegoats for what many perceived as wrong in pre-Nazi Germany. One could argue that those attacking a certain political group are also using Hitler's tactics.

It's all about fear, folks. Some people would have you fear others as a way to control you and get your vote.

[Dan-o]

So, you don't think that the liberal gun control crowd in America is following essentially THE EXACT SAME PLAYBOOK that Hitler did?

I get that comparing to Hitler for everything isn't valid, but where does this comparison fall down?

[rbinhood]

No, I don' think the gun control crowd in America is following Hitler's playbook.

I do think the NRA and other like groups use scare tactics to further their membership rolls and to divide our country along political and other lines.

What has happened is this constant fear mongering has driven the price of ammo and reloading supplies out of sight by turning people into hoarders. Show me one person's gun that the current administration has taken? Show me one piece of ammunition that the current administration has taken? Yet, I get inundated with emails saying Obama (if they bother to spell his name right) is coming to take our guns and ammunition. It's all BS scare tactics.

[bearpaw]

No, I don' think the gun control crowd in America is following Hitler's playbook.

I do think the NRA and other like groups use scare tactics to further their membership rolls and to divide our country along political and other lines.

What has happened is this constant fear mongering has driven the price of ammo and reloading supplies out of sight by turning people into hoarders. Show me one person's gun that the current administration has taken? Show me one piece of ammunition that the current administration has taken? Yet, I get inundated with emails saying Obama (if they bother to spell his name right) is coming to take our guns and ammunition. It's all BS scare tactics.

Dude, you need to seriously pull your head out of the sand! 

[bearpaw]

If the NRA wasn't supporting the 2nd Amendment in congress and winning court battles across the nation we would have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago. 

[bearpaw]

The only reason Obama hasn't taken our guns and ammo is due to the efforts of the NRA, other similar groups, and 2nd Amendment supporters in Congress. 

[Dave Workman]

If the NRA wasn't supporting the 2nd Amendment in congress and winning court battles across the nation we would have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago. 

Geez, I sure hope you don't forget the Second Amendment Foundation. They won the McDonald ruling. They also won Moore v. Madigan, and a slug of other court rulings.

Their motto:  Winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time.

[Stalker]

I do think the NRA and other like groups use scare tactics to further their membership rolls and to divide our country along political and other lines.

So you do not believe these are the same tactics used by the media and a number of left wing groups that want to remove all individual firearms? They are one and the same. What is absolutely ridicules is when the politicians stand up and state that XXX new gun control law will have "NO" impact on crime or mass shooting and people still support it's passage. Makes absolute perfect sense, more worthless laws that only impact law abiding citizens.............   

What has happened is this constant fear mongering has driven the price of ammo and reloading supplies out of sight by turning people into hoarders. Show me one person's gun that the current administration has taken? Show me one piece of ammunition that the current administration has taken? Yet, I get inundated with emails saying Obama (if they bother to spell his name right) is coming to take our guns and ammunition. It's all BS scare tactics.

The ones hording ammo and driving the price up would be U.S. Government agencies like HS and TSA who have ordered "BILLIONS" of rounds of ammo. What would these two agencies need with such a stockpile?  I believe that is more small arms ammo then military forces keep in their inventories.

You are correct that this administration has not sent out troopers of any sort to collect either weapons or ammo. But if you believe they would not if they for one minute believed they could without significant recoil then I believe you are sadly mistaken.

[bearpaw]

If the NRA wasn't supporting the 2nd Amendment in congress and winning court battles across the nation we would have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago. 

Geez, I sure hope you don't forget the Second Amendment Foundation. They won the McDonald ruling. They also won Moore v. Madigan, and a slug of other court rulings.

Their motto:  Winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time.

OOOpppsss, sorry about that. SAF is on the front lines. 

[csaaphill]

perfect spot for this

[rbinhood]

Today's NRA is not the NRA that I used to belong to. The NRA was corrupted years ago by people who have used it to further an ultra-conservative political agenda at the expense of the ideals the NRA was originally founded on. Read the history of the NRA and track its leadership; the cause and effect is undeniable.

I regularly attend gun shows and the people I see buying up ammo are not from the government. The people I see at Walmart waiting for ammo to arrive in the sporting goods department are not from the government. The suggestion that the government is hoarding ammo is just another example of more fear mongering by people using numbers to misstate what is really going on. 

The people sending me emails saying Obama is going to come take your guns and ammo come off as paranoid. They are people who have bought into and perpetrate fear mongering that is a poor substitute for rational debate on the subject. I understand that this issue is driven by emotion and not objective evidence and as a consequence, there's little to be gained by further discourse. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

[washelkhunter]

First, what does ultraconservative mean?
Second, the feds are'nt buying their ammo at podunk gun shows.
Third, paranoia does'nt hurt anyone. The preppers are going to sail right thru the huge freeze now descending on the heartland.
Lastly your premise is false. The NRA is still the worlds pre eminent civil rights organization. You dont really believe that the org should not adapt to counter ever new threats to our pursuit of life, liberty and happiness do you? Oh, thank you for deciding to not argue this any further.

[rbinhood]

Ultra-conservative=neocon
Look in the dictionary, and you'll see Carl Rove's picture above the definition.
The federal government buys a lot of ammunition. They also have to train and supply the military, and all of the federal law enforcement agencies. If you do a google search of the "sky is falling" federal ammunition acquisition, you will see the numbers are consistent with what has been purchased in the past.




"Don't argue with people dumber than you are because they'll beat you every time with experience." Mark Twain

[rasbo]

If the NRA wasn't supporting the 2nd Amendment in congress and winning court battles across the nation we would have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago


Im one of them dummies that believe the above to be true,and still havent found the smarts to swallow the hook some of the super smart will.Kind of like ol Johnny Cash's song,I took it one piece at a time


Johnny Cash One Piece At A Time

[arees]

I regularly attend gun shows and the people I see buying up ammo are not from the government. The people I see at Walmart waiting for ammo to arrive in the sporting goods department are not from the government. The suggestion that the government is hoarding ammo is just another example of more fear mongering by people using numbers to misstate what is really going on. 

I must say that your arguments lose credibility when you make statements like this.  Your evidence that the government is not buying large amounts of ammunition is that you did not see them buying it at gun shows or Walmart.  Lets see how many ways this is a preposterous statement.

1) How many gun shows have you attended?  Is that enough to be a representative sampling?  Have they been geographically diverse?

2) How often do you shop the gun counter at Walmart?  Again, is it a representative sampling?

3) In those many, many times you have been hanging out at gun shows and the Walmart gun counter, have you been checking IDs?

Oh yeah, one more.  Since when did the government start fulfilling large procurement orders at gun shows and Walmart?

You have presented the case that you go to places where the government does not purchase ammunition and have found that the people trying to purchase ammunition there are not from the government.  Something around here smells like a troll.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Ultra-conservative=neocon
Look in the dictionary, and you'll see Carl Rove's picture above the definition.
The federal government buys a lot of ammunition. They also have to train and supply the military, and all of the federal law enforcement agencies. If you do a google search of the "sky is falling" federal ammunition acquisition, you will see the numbers are consistent with what has been purchased in the past.

"Don't argue with people dumber than you are because they'll beat you every time with experience." Mark Twain

 One thing different from the past is they have recently  created an entirely new federal police force.....

http://govtslaves.info/seattle-has-been-taken-over-by-the-department-of-homeland-security/

 And rove is a RINO

[washelkhunter]

Ultra conservative = neocon or new conservative? So what exactly are these?

[Elkaholic daWg]

http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/hitler-survivor-tells-americans-buy-more-guns/#LlZPzJX7fKR6IaBK.01
 
The government required people to register their guns, insisting it was for their own protection, a way of tracking down criminals that was supposed to cut down on crime.

In reality, however, it was merely a ruse to track down those patriots who might resist the coming tyranny.

So explains Kitty Werthmann in a speech going viral on the Internet, a story of her life in Austria right before the Nazi occupation of her home country in 1938. As she explains, her nation’s surrender to Nazi tyranny didn’t begin with the Anschluss, but with little steps like acquiescing to gun-control laws:

“Dictatorship didn’t happen overnight. I took five years, gradually, little by little, to escalate up to a dictatorship,” she said. “When the people fear the government, that’s tyranny. When the government fears the people, that’s you, that’s liberty. Keep your guns, keep your guns and buy more guns!”

(Editor’s note: The following video was not produced by WND and contains several spelling and grammatical errors in its text overlays)
 





     

 
Werthmann’s speech, delivered at the “Let Freedom Ring” tea-party rally in Woodstown, N.J., on June 28, 2011, has been frequently circulated via YouTube and other online channels for years, but picked up steam again after the National Rifle Association reposted it recently under the title “Hitler Survivor Condemns Gun Control.”

The clear implication in her speech is that modern-day Americans should beware gun-control laws that strip them of their ability to resist an overbearing government.

“In 1938, the media reported that Hitler rolled into Austria with tanks and guns and took us over. Not true at all,” she said. “The Austrian people elected Hitler by 98 percent of the vote, by means of the ballot box.

“You might ask, ‘How could a Christian nation … elect a monster like Hitler?’” she continued. “The truth is, at the beginning Hitler didn’t look like or talk like a monster at all. He talked like an American politician.”

[rbinhood]

arees:

I see you get my point. The government is not buying ammo at gun shows or Walmart, or any other over-the-counter location where average Joes buy their ammo or reloading supplies. Average Joes are buying all of the available ammo at these retail places, and by purchasing the available supplies as a result of fear driven anxiety, they are engaging in hoarding, although I realize there are some people who think they will never have enough ammo.

Your reference to a "troll" is misplaced. I have hunted since I was six years old, beginning with my father, my grandfather, and my uncles. I was a junior member of the NRA, as well as an adult member, before the organization became a political tool for one party. I have a concealed carry permit, and I carry. I own all manner of rifles, shotguns and handguns. I reload my own ammunition. If you come through my door uninvited, with the intent to harm me or my family, I will kill you in a heartbeat.

I disagree that the Second Amendment, or the Constitution, for that matter, belong to one political party, faction, or group, although several seem to think they own it. People have a right to disagree with your viewpoints.

[snowpack]

arees:

I see you get my point. The government is not buying ammo at gun shows or Walmart, or any other over-the-counter location where average Joes buy their ammo or reloading supplies. Average Joes are buying all of the available ammo at these retail places, and by purchasing the available supplies as a result of fear driven anxiety, they are engaging in hoarding, although I realize there are some people who think they will never have enough ammo.

Most of the ammo is being produced by the large manufacturers.  The government buys direct from them.  If the government places an order for the maximum output of the factory, then the factory doesn't ship to Wallyworld for retail.  Almost like they took a page out of the WalMart playbook about contracting for outputs beyond capacity and stockpiling in warehouses.

[rbinhood]

Elkaholic:

Ever heard of Goodwin's Law?

Google it.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Elkaholic:

Ever heard of Goodwin's Law?

Google it.

 Your point? And I was not the one here where the Adolph comparisons originated.   Don't use google



 Not seeing a response to THIS one.....

Ultra-conservative=neocon
Look in the dictionary, and you'll see Carl Rove's picture above the definition.
The federal government buys a lot of ammunition. They also have to train and supply the military, and all of the federal law enforcement agencies. If you do a google search of the "sky is falling" federal ammunition acquisition, you will see the numbers are consistent with what has been purchased in the past.

"Don't argue with people dumber than you are because they'll beat you every time with experience." Mark Twain

 One thing different from the past is they have recently  created an entirely new federal police force.....

http://govtslaves.info/seattle-has-been-taken-over-by-the-department-of-homeland-security/

 And rove is a RINO

[csaaphill]

“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
This might not have ever been said by Thomas Jefferson as I've seen before but I know it's biblical at least the plowshares part.
with the reality that I know and have seen the second part is real as well.
For in a snitch culture of see something say something even if it's for terrorism is very debilitating to liberty which is what our forefathers gave us this agenda crap was never to be part of it, at least not to this point.
deny GOD all you want, if you know anything of the bible and it's prophecies you know what's coming.
Stop trying to water it down by saying it aint happening because it is inch by inch step by step each and every day were closer to totaltarianistic country and no vote will undo!

[huntrights]

If the NRA wasn't supporting the 2nd Amendment in congress and winning court battles across the nation we would have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago. 

Geez, I sure hope you don't forget the Second Amendment Foundation. They won the McDonald ruling. They also won Moore v. Madigan, and a slug of other court rulings.

Their motto:  Winning firearms freedom one lawsuit at a time.

 
The NRA, SAF, and other similar organizations are constantly fighting for our rights (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,123035.msg1625897.html#msg1625897).  They have kept us informed of anti-gun legislation so we can stop the underhanded attempts to chip away at our rights.  At this point, it is dumbfounding that there are still people our there, that are gun owners, that do not see that our right to keep and bear arms is under attack; those folks need to wake up and observe what is going on around them.  Look at the unnecessary, anti-gun laws that were shoved through state legislatures in New York, Colorado, California, and other states.  The same was attempted in Washington, but enough of us contacted our representatives that we were able to fend off the attacks.  We depend on the NRA, SAF, and other similar organizations to represent us and file law suits to overturn menacing and unconstitutional anti-gun legislation that has been shoved down the throats of honest, law-abiding citizens.  It is unfortunate that it has primarily been one political party that has pushed virtually all of the anti-gun legislation that has been proposed and/or passed in the recent past.  Gun owners that have had that party affiliation might want to take a close look at what their political party is doing and make future political choices accordingly.  Republicans have voted for Democratic candidates and Democrats have voted for Republican candidates.  The most important action for all people to take is to vote only for representatives and officials that will uphold their Oath of Office to support and defend the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights which includes the Second Amendment.  It seems some of our political representatives at all levels are NOT representing the people or defending the individual rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.  Some of them seem to be intentionally pushing the boundaries of Constitutionality; that's NOT what they are elected to do.  Vote them out of office. 

[arees]

arees:

I see you get my point. The government is not buying ammo at gun shows or Walmart, or any other over-the-counter location where average Joes buy their ammo or reloading supplies. Average Joes are buying all of the available ammo at these retail places, and by purchasing the available supplies as a result of fear driven anxiety, they are engaging in hoarding, although I realize there are some people who think they will never have enough ammo.

Your reference to a "troll" is misplaced. I have hunted since I was six years old, beginning with my father, my grandfather, and my uncles. I was a junior member of the NRA, as well as an adult member, before the organization became a political tool for one party. I have a concealed carry permit, and I carry. I own all manner of rifles, shotguns and handguns. I reload my own ammunition. If you come through my door uninvited, with the intent to harm me or my family, I will kill you in a heartbeat.

I disagree that the Second Amendment, or the Constitution, for that matter, belong to one political party, faction, or group, although several seem to think they own it. People have a right to disagree with your viewpoints.

No, sorry, I don't get your point.  If someone is buying large quantities of ammunition wholesale, then that ammunition is not available retail.  You seem to claim that manufacturers always fill orders from retailers before they fill government orders.  That is an odd claim.  Do you have anything to back up your claim.  Most manufacturers fill orders for large customers first.

Midway is a fairly big ammunition retailer.  They are very good at supply chain management.  I would expect the manufacturers would be trying to keep them stocked and would be able to tell Midway when the next shipment would be arriving.

Normally that is what happens.  Midway has a feature on their website where they tell you the product is out of stock and when they expect the next shipment to arrive.  Now, a lot of the ammunition I am interested in shows out of stock but they do not know when more will arrive.  Others are marked out of stock and the expected shipment is overdue.  This means that something has disrupted Midway's supply chain.

If it were simply lots of people wanting to buy ammunition, we would see regular shipments arriving at the retailer and then selling out quickly.  The regular shipments are not arriving at the retailers.  The shipments are not arriving at the large retailers, not just the mom and pop stores.

The evidence shows that the supply chain is broken somewhere before it arrives at retailers.

Why is a major retailer unable to predict when product will arrive on their shelves?

Many retailers, including Midway, are rationing ammunition.  This is to prevent "hoarders" from buying up all the ammunition when it arrives.  If the major retailers are rationing ammunition to prevent hoarding, how are the hoarders buying up all the ammunition?  Perhaps this is still caused by your apparent concept that the manufacturers supply the small retailers and guys that run tables at gun shows first.

Perhaps you would like to make a new pronouncement on what is happening to the ammunition.

[rbinhood]

When I took economics, I was taught about supply and demand. If supply goes down and demand goes up, the price that can be charged for available goods goes up, too. Less ammo means manufacturers can charge more for what they produce. One possible explanation is that the manufacturers have created a false scarcity to drive the price up, something big pharma does with drugs. I will grant you that another possible explanation is government purchases, however, the timing of the scarcity is what concerns me. Nobody had any  trouble getting ammo until all of these emails started going around about Obama taking guns and ammo, which to date, have proven false. However, all of my conservative friends who circulate these emails are also the ones stockpiling ammo like there is no tomorrow. My choice is to not buy into all of these fear based, "the sky is falling" communications. I hope that others may see the value in that too.

[rbinhood]

Elkaholic, you are right, it appears the Nazi comparisons were started by ricochet. I stand corrected if you are disavowing comparing liberals to Nazis?

[TONTO]

I disagree that the Second Amendment, or the Constitution, for that matter, belong to one political party, faction, or group, although several seem to think they own it. People have a right to disagree with your viewpoints.

 I do agree, the Constitution, including the Second Amendment, dosen't belong to one party, it belong's to "WE THE PEOPLE" and niether party should think they should be able to change it. As far as the NRA being a tool for one party, the NRA does what it does and that is fight for our constitution and 2nd amendment rights, thing is, I only see one party trying to destroy those at every opportunity.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Elkaholic, you are right, it appears the Nazi comparisons were started by ricochet. I stand corrected if you are disavowing comparing liberals to Nazis?

Stupid in large numbers is VERY bad

[deltaops]

Some people just do not see it coming.

I have a friend who is in the military, he hasn't worn civilian clothes in about 5 years. We have discussions about the president And the office taking our firearms away. It is never a if with him, it is always when.

Slowly it is being imbedded into peoples heads that we do not need firearms. It is trickling down to our children. If we continue to let it happen, it will happen, it is just a matter of when.

If you can not see it happening then you are either for it or you have not woken up yet.

[snowpack]

Some people just do not see it coming.

I have a friend who is in the military, he hasn't worn civilian clothes in about 5 years. We have discussions about the president And the office taking our firearms away. It is never a if with him, it is always when.

Slowly it is being imbedded into peoples heads that we do not need firearms. It is trickling down to our children. If we continue to let it happen, it will happen, it is just a matter of when.

If you can not see it happening then you are either for it or you have not woken up yet.

I was just reading some articles about where people are relocating.  For 2013, it was Oregon at the top of the list and then followed by other Western and Southern states.  Most of those people were relocating from the Northeast and were 'young professionals'.  Many were citing jobs and urban arts/entertainment as reasons to move.  So, you have a group that has been raised in one of the least gun friendly regions of the country that is trending more and more to moving into the more gun friendly areas at rates faster than the opposite is occurring.  So, unlikely that the Northeast will become any more pro-gun; but seems like the voting bases in the states that are getting most of the transplants would get more of a 'northeast flavor'.     Maybe once they have lived in their new states they'll realize that guns aren't the boogeyman that some of their home states make them seem.

[arees]

When I took economics, I was taught about supply and demand. If supply goes down and demand goes up, the price that can be charged for available goods goes up, too. Less ammo means manufacturers can charge more for what they produce. One possible explanation is that the manufacturers have created a false scarcity to drive the price up, something big pharma does with drugs. I will grant you that another possible explanation is government purchases, however, the timing of the scarcity is what concerns me. Nobody had any  trouble getting ammo until all of these emails started going around about Obama taking guns and ammo, which to date, have proven false. However, all of my conservative friends who circulate these emails are also the ones stockpiling ammo like there is no tomorrow. My choice is to not buy into all of these fear based, "the sky is falling" communications. I hope that others may see the value in that too.

I can tell you that I am having a hard time "stockpiling" ammunition.  I can't find any to buy.

My recollection is that supplies of reloading components dried up first, while Obama was pretending to not be interested in gun control.  For example, primers were scarce when loaded ammunition was still readily available.  I just did a spot check on Midway for "large rifle primers" under the  "primers" category.  There are 22 matching products.  None of which are in stock.  Midway's description for "Out of Stock, No Backorder" is:

Product is not available for order, and we cannot offer a backorder option because the manufacturer is unable to provide us with a reliable "Date expected in stock." In most cases, this is due to unusually high demand or a lack of raw materials. As soon as we have reliable information, we will update the status of the product.

At the time I first heard of primers becoming scares the explanation was that military contracts were taking up all the available resources.  Back then I backordered some and they eventually showed up.  Now if I needed more I can not even backorder them.

If it is simply a stockpiling issue, how many years can it go on?  Eventually people run out of space to put these things and the supply chain catches up. 

Why can't the manufacturers provide a reliable "Date expected in stock?"  Knowing the rate your factory produces product and how many orders you have is a simple business function unless something is disrupting your incoming supplies or you have large priority orders that you can not predict.

Remmington is opening a new ammunition factory.  This would imply that they believe there is a sustained increase in demand and not a short term availability issue.  You don't build a new factory for a short term run on a product.

I'm not sure what is driving the scarcity, but observations at gun shows and Walmart don't provide answers.

[deltaops]

Some people just do not see it coming.

I have a friend who is in the military, he hasn't worn civilian clothes in about 5 years. We have discussions about the president And the office taking our firearms away. It is never a if with him, it is always when.

Slowly it is being imbedded into peoples heads that we do not need firearms. It is trickling down to our children. If we continue to let it happen, it will happen, it is just a matter of when.

If you can not see it happening then you are either for it or you have not woken up yet.

I meant to say he hasn't worn military clothing in over 5 years but he is still in.