Tired of WA tag soup

[Button Nubbs]

If I could give one single secret that would increase the average guys success each and every year it would be this.  Think like the quarry you are hunting.  You can do this by reading about certain species, spending time in the woods observing that species and/or hiring an expert guide willing to answer as many questions as you can throw at them while hunting under their supervision.

I have an old fishing client that still keeps in touch with me and sends me success photos constantly.  After 20 years of trying to catch a steelhead with zero success his wife gave him a guided trip as a Christmas present.  I don't remember it being an unusually good day on the water as far as fish went.  But, I do remember this guy asking more questions than I could possible answer in one day.  Every time I switched lures he would ask me, "Why?"  Every time I would drop anchor he would ask, "Why?"  Every time I would have him cast to a certain part in the river he would ask me, "Why?"  I ended up telling him exactly why I was working a particular piece of water and how to read it before we made the first cast in each location.  He took full advantage of my experience with steelhead.  Not to increase his chances of catching a fish on that particular day.  But, to educate himself for his future success without the assistance of a guide. He wasn't set on learning the way I did things as much as he was trying to learn why steelhead do the things they do.  I can comfortably say with complete confidence that this past client is a better steelhead fisherman than I am today.  He truly is one of the best I've seen.  He had the raw talent and desire to begin with.  All he needed was a little Steelhead 101 to get him started on the right track. 

The same principles apply to deer and elk hunting.  Show me an expert hunter for a specific species of animal and I will show you someone who is educated in the way that animal thinks.  They don't watch an animal bust out of a hole without asking the question, "Why?"  Why was that animal in that spot?  Why was that animal spooked?  Why did he run that way?  What was he eating?  How far from the rut are we?  Where was he going?  Should I expect him to return to this spot?  How could I have made my approach differently?  And then, If I find myself in this situation again how am I going to kill that animal next time?

sheesh! you gotta give away all the secrets?

in all honesty this is some of the best advice i have seen on here. i feel like i have a pretty good grasp on fishing and yet i am still constantly asking myself questions as to why. i do the same thing with elk and feel i have the puzzle of the area i hunt pretty well figured out. there is a fine line between this and over thinking though. think about it but dont over think it, once you can find the medium between these two you will be successful.

great post rad!

[Bigshooter]

If you take away the hunter success statistics for blacktail in both Oregon and Washington almost all the western states published success ratios are about the same +/- 3-5%.  Those success ratios are heavily weighed toward those who know their hunting areas well ie resident hunters vs resident hunters.  So when guys post on the internet about the 50 bucks they see a day in "X" state or how they passed up "X" amount of deer per day looking for Mr. Big without scouting or hiring a guide in a different state you need to take it with a grain of salt.  While the occasional guy does fall into a hot spot or hits the rut perfect or happens to be a true expert in research it is statistically the exception rather than the rule.


If I could give one single secret that would increase the average guys success each and every year it would be this.  Think like the quarry you are hunting.  You can do this by reading about certain species, spending time in the woods observing that species and/or hiring an expert guide willing to answer as many questions as you can throw at them while hunting under their supervision.

I have an old fishing client that still keeps in touch with me and sends me success photos constantly.  After 20 years of trying to catch a steelhead with zero success his wife gave him a guided trip as a Christmas present.  I don't remember it being an unusually good day on the water as far as fish went.  But, I do remember this guy asking more questions than I could possible answer in one day.  Every time I switched lures he would ask me, "Why?"  Every time I would drop anchor he would ask, "Why?"  Every time I would have him cast to a certain part in the river he would ask me, "Why?"  I ended up telling him exactly why I was working a particular piece of water and how to read it before we made the first cast in each location.  He took full advantage of my experience with steelhead.  Not to increase his chances of catching a fish on that particular day.  But, to educate himself for his future success without the assistance of a guide. He wasn't set on learning the way I did things as much as he was trying to learn why steelhead do the things they do.  I can comfortably say with complete confidence that this past client is a better steelhead fisherman than I am today.  He truly is one of the best I've seen.  He had the raw talent and desire to begin with.  All he needed was a little Steelhead 101 to get him started on the right track. 

The same principles apply to deer and elk hunting.  Show me an expert hunter for a specific species of animal and I will show you someone who is educated in the way that animal thinks.  They don't watch an animal bust out of a hole without asking the question, "Why?"  Why was that animal in that spot?  Why was that animal spooked?  Why did he run that way?  What was he eating?  How far from the rut are we?  Where was he going?  Should I expect him to return to this spot?  How could I have made my approach differently?  And then, If I find myself in this situation again how am I going to kill that animal next time?


I find Thomas Edison to be one of my best sources of inspiration.  While educating yourself in your quarry it is important to also educate yourself in ways to succeed when obstacles and rejection try to tear you down.  Probably no other man in history was as resilient to these issues as Thomas Edison.  It is said that after developing a successful light bulb he admitted it was his two thousand and first prototype.  It is claimed that he was asked by a reporter how he was able to continue working after failing 2,000 times.  To which he answered, "I did not fail.  I just found 2,000 ways how not to make a light bulb.  I only needed to find one way to make it work."

Other Edison quotes I find helpful;

"Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration. Accordingly, a 'genius' is often merely a talented person who has done all of his or her homework."

"Many of life's failures are experienced by people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up."

I'm guessing your out of state hunting experience has been poor compared to mine and my friends that hunt out of state every year.  A one eyed guy with no bino's could see multiple bucks every day in E MT just driving around on public land.  Yes all of the things that you say do help.  The only thing that I disagree with is that it's just as easy to kill something in W WA as it is in any other western state.

[RadSav]

I'm guessing your out of state hunting experience has been poor compared to mine and my friends that hunt out of state every year.  A one eyed guy with no bino's could see multiple bucks every day in E MT just driving around on public land.  Yes all of the things that you say do help.  The only thing that I disagree with is that it's just as easy to kill something in W WA as it is in any other western state.

Canada is probably the only place I can think of where I've come back empty handed.  But I figured out long ago that my experiences are not typical.  Whether hunting Washington or some other state.  Average hunters in Washington are the same as average hunters in other states.  Published hunter success statistics support that thought with about a 5% variation if you eliminate Washington and Oregon blacktail numbers.  The past four years those elk statistics do show Washington as a very different story.  However, when comparing deer statistics it does fall within those close numbers.  There are pockets in each state with extremely high success.  If you find them it does seem like the whole state is filled with endless opportunities.  Sure sounds like you have one heck of a nice spot in E. MT!

When I was a kid I thought everyone was successful at filling elk and deer tags.  I figured if a guy did not fill a tag in Oregon or Washington he was lazy and never got out of his truck.  But, as happens to so many young punk kids reality has a way of finding it's way home.  I now know success that might come easy to some can come hard to some with even more motivation and just not as clear an understanding of the animal or hunting grounds.  It's a bit of a selfish thought to think that it's a good thing not everyone finds filling a tag as easy as you and I do.  But if everyone had the success of the 10% we would have little to no seasons due to over harvest.  We've got to appreciate and remain understanding of our fellow hunters.  They are family regardless of their success.

I find elk to be one of the easiest to tag and stupidest animals in the woods.  So much so I rarely get excited for elk season to come preferring deer season.  Does that make them easy for the average person to harvest?  Success statistics say no.  I've hunted with some human mountain goats with a ton of motivation that have not filled an elk tag since 1988.  Are they lazy and/or stupid?  Absolutely not!  Some just understand animal behavior and some don't.  We can all get better at it, but as with any sport some are just better at it than others.  Just the way the world turns I expect.  Will a change in environment help some?  It certainly can.  However, I still believe getting well educated at home will help you no matter what the scenery is and no matter what state is printed on your tag.

Another Edison quote that can find relevance here. Makes me day dream and conclude that I'll take smart hunting over hard hunting any day.  Though I do enjoy a hard fought battle with a big buck;

"From his neck down a man is worth a couple of dollars a day, from his neck up he is worth anything that his brain can produce."

[SCRUBS]

Location, location, location...

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Location, location, location...

I agee...and WA...as a whole.. is a great location...and within that some locations will be more productive than others.

[Bigshooter]

I'm guessing your out of state hunting experience has been poor compared to mine and my friends that hunt out of state every year.  A one eyed guy with no bino's could see multiple bucks every day in E MT just driving around on public land.  Yes all of the things that you say do help.  The only thing that I disagree with is that it's just as easy to kill something in W WA as it is in any other western state.

Canada is probably the only place I can think of where I've come back empty handed.  But I figured out long ago that my experiences are not typical.  Whether hunting Washington or some other state.  Average hunters in Washington are the same as average hunters in other states.  Published hunter success statistics support that thought with about a 5% variation if you eliminate Washington and Oregon blacktail numbers.  The past four years those elk statistics do show Washington as a very different story.  However, when comparing deer statistics it does fall within those close numbers.  There are pockets in each state with extremely high success.  If you find them it does seem like the whole state is filled with endless opportunities.  Sure sounds like you have one heck of a nice spot in E. MT!

When I was a kid I thought everyone was successful at filling elk and deer tags.  I figured if a guy did not fill a tag in Oregon or Washington he was lazy and never got out of his truck.  But, as happens to so many young punk kids reality has a way of finding it's way home.  I now know success that might come easy to some can come hard to some with even more motivation and just not as clear an understanding of the animal or hunting grounds.  It's a bit of a selfish thought to think that it's a good thing not everyone finds filling a tag as easy as you and I do.  But if everyone had the success of the 10% we would have little to no seasons due to over harvest.  We've got to appreciate and remain understanding of our fellow hunters.  They are family regardless of their success.

I find elk to be one of the easiest to tag and stupidest animals in the woods.  So much so I rarely get excited for elk season to come preferring deer season.  Does that make them easy for the average person to harvest?  Success statistics say no.  I've hunted with some human mountain goats with a ton of motivation that have not filled an elk tag since 1988.  Are they lazy and/or stupid?  Absolutely not!  Some just understand animal behavior and some don't.  We can all get better at it, but as with any sport some are just better at it than others.  Just the way the world turns I expect.  Will a change in environment help some?  It certainly can.  However, I still believe getting well educated at home will help you no matter what the scenery is and no matter what state is printed on your tag.

Another Edison quote that can find relevance here. Makes me day dream and conclude that I'll take smart hunting over hard hunting any day.  Though I do enjoy a hard fought battle with a big buck;

"From his neck down a man is worth a couple of dollars a day, from his neck up he is worth anything that his brain can produce."

I have read on MM many times that a lot of ID guys don't report harvest to keep success rates low.  I watched a Randy Newberg hunting show a couple years ago where he was hunting in E MT where harvest rates where 45% and he mentioned that the only way that there not 100% is because people are waiting to kill a big buck and have probably already filled a doe tag or two.  My point is harvest statistics don't always mean a whole lot.  There are many units in CO that have 60-90%+ success rates.  But then there is what people consider trophy units that only have success rates in the 40%'s or even lower.  Why do you think that is?  My first guess wouldn't be because there aren't many deer.  I just wouldn't use harvest numbers to gauge how easy it is to kill a deer.  In fact when I research a new hunting area it is one of my least important things to look at.

[kramman]

Wyoming

[RadSav]

I agree that the best other western states have to offer is better than the best Washington has to offer in regards to buck numbers and success statistics.  There are spots in E. Montana, Southern Idaho and other states where OTC tags can lead to near 100% success.  Rarely do you find any area of Washington state that exceeds 35%.  I in no way dispute that.  However, just going to another state is not necessarily going to give you a sizeable improvement over the land you know well here in Washington.  You have to find the right spots in those other states to experience it.

Again, I encourage guys getting out and hunting other states.  I have enjoyed nearly every moment of hunting other states.  I remember a day in AZ when I had five bucks surrounding me not far from the town of Globe.  The smallest was a 180 class buck and the largest well over 200.  I doubt you will experience that in Washington.  In Idaho I failed to fill a tag one day because every time I drew my bow to shoot a nice buck a bigger one came into view.  While I sat there trying to decide which one I wanted most the wind swirled and I didn't get a second chance at any of them.  I haven't had many of those experiences here in Washington.  And I remember making a stalk on three bucks, all over 170 in Oregon, when a 190 class buck came up from nearly under my feet like a grouse from the little hole he was hiding in.  Again, I don't seem to have those problems here in Washington.  It's been great fun hunting the west.  I hope everyone who wants to experience that for themselves can find a way to get to these great Western locations and experience it for themselves.

But, my passion for this thread has more to do with helping the OP or other unsuccessful hunters reading it. I hope to point out that success isn't just a state away.  Montana, Oregon, Arizona and Idaho are best experienced when fully prepared to make the most of it.  And just because it is a different state doesn't necessarily mean you can take your unsuccessful tactics from here and use them there with success.  If that were true the statistics from those states would reflect it.  It can be an expensive learning experience filled with frustration if you are unprepared.

Bigshooter is right in that you can not completely rely on statistics alone for finding your own success.  They don't always show the lay of the land, the public access or the pressure the animals in that area receive.  Heck, if we looked at statistics alone we would never have even thought to hunt the area my wife took her nice blacktail this year.  But, what information must you gather beyond statistics if you have no experience with success to fall back on?  It's tough!  Often DANG tough!  Even when you are trying to find a new spot close to home it's tough.  I know experienced guys much better than I who make mistakes in their research now and then.  I would expect Bigshooter has made a mistake or two.  And Lord knows I have made enough for both of us plus a couple more. 

A good friend of mine is a wildlife biologist for the US Geological Survey.  You won't find many more knowledgeable hunters in the woods.  He is blessed with a great education, a serious analytical mind, a knack for research and a natural sense of what to do and when.  One year he decided to get a Mtn Goat tag for an archery hunt.  Statistically the area he chose was the best of the best.  Big goats, high success numbers, low mortality rates and an aggressively increasing goat population.  How could he possibly go wrong?  When he finally got to the location with tag in hand he found that all the goats in this area during that time of year held in an almost vertical environment.  Sure if he had been shooting a rifle and had rappelling gear he could have tagged a trophy goat within hours of the start of the season.  But getting within recurve range and having no rappelling gear or experience meant he had just spent his substantial savings on a near impossible chance of success with limited options to put a hunt in his favor.  Statistics had done him no favors at all.

Washington is not a bad place to hunt.  Is it better than Montana, Idaho, Oregon or Arizona as a whole?  Probably not!  But it's right here where we spend our lives.  And with a multi season tag there are areas of Washington that a meat hunter would be hard pressed not to fill a tag if serious about it and can shoot straight.  Heck, I married a city girl, raised by a bunch of worthless drug addicts and convicts and she was successful every single year with a bow until she decided to set her goals higher than just filling the freezer.  Even legally blind she experienced considerable success in this state hunting public land and OTC tags.  It's just not all that bad.  Sometimes a change in your state of mind can lead to greater success than hunting with the same mind set in a different state.

[boneaddict]

Dang you are long winded.     BUT...... ALL Sage advice.

[bobcat]

The units in Washington that have decent success rates for deer are 99% private land. Other states like Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have the same success rates in units that are almost all public land.

Washington doesn't even come close to having good public land hunting like other states have, in my opinion.

[RadSav]

Dang you are long winded.

Passionate about the topic!  Just seen way to many guys thinking all they have to do is drive across the border to find success.  If you are one of the 90% here your probably going to be one of the 80 or 90% there if you attack it the same way.  That's an awful expensive lesson too many learn the hard way.  Many of those who failed at great expense were close personal friends who were led astray by my stories of success.  I try to not hide the tough times I've had filling tags in other states like I use too.  I felt it wasn't important information to indulge in my excitement back then.  And it hurt a few financially as a result.

If I could I'd probably hunt Washington state very little.  Animal quality and concentration of people is not the same in Washington and Oregon as it is in most other western states.  But, it is not an answer if the tactics of failure here are employed there.  Washington is a great place to practice in preparation for that big hunt of a lifetime.  As someone once said, "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere..."  And if you are simply hunting for meat the Multi-Season opportunities here just aren't that bad.  And will save a guy a whole bunch of money.

Of course deer is the main subject of my posts here.  Bull elk might be a completely different story as would record book size opportunities.

[MADMAX]

 

Totally agree, I have killed cougars, good bulls, bears, deer.
I have no B&C or P&Y heads but I am consistent on decent animals
sure now in my mids 50s starting to slow down a step or 2 , no more deep canyon bull pack out by my self type thing.
Went WY once ,2 antelope and 3x4 buck
Went to Montana once, came home with a doe.
Its how much you put in to it.
Lots of opportunities here in WA

[300UltraMagShooter]

I've hunted in 15 different states.  WA is one of the easiest to get an animal.  By far easier than hunting whitetails in the eastern states.  (Save for western WA)

[DBHAWTHORNE]

The units in Washington that have decent success rates for deer are 99% private land. Other states like Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have the same success rates in units that are almost all public land.

Washington doesn't even come close to having good public land hunting like other states have, in my opinion.

..unless you are after Whitetail.. We have some of the best public land Whitetail hunting in the U.S.

[bobcat]

The units in Washington that have decent success rates for deer are 99% private land. Other states like Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have the same success rates in units that are almost all public land.

Washington doesn't even come close to having good public land hunting like other states have, in my opinion.

..unless you are after Whitetail.. We have some of the best public land Whitetail hunting in the U.S.

Yes, I won't argue with that. I guess I was mostly thinking of blacktail, since that's what I hunt when I hunt from home, and mule deer, because that's what I hunt when I go east.

Hear that everyone? If you want to kill a deer, go to the NE for whitetails! (It's easy)