Salmon, Idaho's 1st Annual Wolf & Coyote Derby, Dec 28-29

[Duffer]

....
How you can say the nonsense that "wolves can never be managed", when Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have all reduced their wolf populations in several years through sport hunting and trapping?  .....

Could you kindly point me to your reference info showing a reduction in the Idaho wolf population?

Thank you

[JLS]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/apr/03/idaho-wolf-population-decreased-by-11-percent-in/

[KFhunter]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/apr/03/idaho-wolf-population-decreased-by-11-percent-in/

[KFhunter]

This is what's telling

While the number of wolf packs increased, the average size of the packs decreased, Rachael said.

“That is exactly what we would expect to see with wolves being harvested by hunters and trappers,” he said. “Average pack size peaked in 2008 prior to our first hunting season, when we estimated an average of slightly more than eight wolves per pack, and has declined since then to about five wolves per pack now.”

Washington can't trap them, and it's harder to hunt a wolf in timber and brush than in wide open ground where you can see a long ways.

Washington has less Elk, and the herds are much smaller and spread out.  The wolves will be very hard on a small herd of Elk bumping them all winter long so they never rest and feed.


We are setup for a lot of conflict in the coming years.
 

[KFhunter]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/apr/03/idaho-wolf-population-decreased-by-11-percent-in/

This story pretty much proves some of what was said(although only a couple of hunting seasons have been held for them so far)they will be very hard to manage.

So far this winter we are experiencing really low snow levels,  so far the wolves don't have much increased advantage due to it.
Hopefully the Elk will be able to cover ground better.

[Duffer]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/apr/03/idaho-wolf-population-decreased-by-11-percent-in/

Thank you

[idahohuntr]

We are setup for a lot of conflict in the coming years. 

Now we are coming full circle here...the rhetoric and stunts like :wolf derbies" don't make any difference in Idaho wolf numbers (none were harvested), yet they generate a lot of negative publicity and raise serious revenue for anti hunting groups.  Fortunately, regardless of the fascinations of the anti-hunt groups, hunting wolves in Idaho is here to stay. 

But what state might be trying to initiate wolf hunts in the not too distant future?  I personally think any wolf hunt proposal in Washington will make Idaho/Montana wolf stuff look like a pillow fight.  It is so critical in WA that hunters convince the reasonable non-hunting public in this state that wolf management (inclusive of hunting) can be done responsibly or we don't stand a chance.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

We are setup for a lot of conflict in the coming years. 

Now we are coming full circle here...the rhetoric and stunts like :wolf derbies" don't make any difference in Idaho wolf numbers (none were harvested), yet they generate a lot of negative publicity and raise serious revenue for anti hunting groups.  Fortunately, regardless of the fascinations of the anti-hunt groups, hunting wolves in Idaho is here to stay. 

But what state might be trying to initiate wolf hunts in the not too distant future?  I personally think any wolf hunt proposal in Washington will make Idaho/Montana wolf stuff look like a pillow fight.  It is so critical in WA that hunters convince the reasonable non-hunting public in this state that wolf management (inclusive of hunting) can be done responsibly or we don't stand a chance.

Amen brother.
 
It will do hunters no good to alienate non hunters in Washington. Look what's already happened to hunting with dogs and trapping in this state. Instead of being obstinate and throwing things in non hunters' faces, hunters will be better served by patiently getting good facts to share and showing we are reasonable, responsible people who care about the resources we use. What we don't want is to out crazy the anti hunting crazies. Let them have the unreasonable low road.

[pianoman9701]

JLS, since wolves reproduce at a rate of up to 40% annually, an 11% harvest (like the one you cited), means the wolves are not being managed to maintain population numbers, but their increase is only being slowed. 

[deerslyr]

We are setup for a lot of conflict in the coming years. 

Now we are coming full circle here...the rhetoric and stunts like :wolf derbies" don't make any difference in Idaho wolf numbers (none were harvested), yet they generate a lot of negative publicity and raise serious revenue for anti hunting groups.  Fortunately, regardless of the fascinations of the anti-hunt groups, hunting wolves in Idaho is here to stay. 

But what state might be trying to initiate wolf hunts in the not too distant future?  I personally think any wolf hunt proposal in Washington will make Idaho/Montana wolf stuff look like a pillow fight.  It is so critical in WA that hunters convince the reasonable non-hunting public in this state that wolf management (inclusive of hunting) can be done responsibly or we don't stand a chance.

  Well said brother.

[BOWHUNTER45]

This shows how smart the Bios are ....35 packs produced around 187 pups in a year  What will Washington do in a couple more years when our population hits around 600 wolves ?? 

[JLS]

JLS, since wolves reproduce at a rate of up to 40% annually, an 11% harvest (like the one you cited), means the wolves are not being managed to maintain population numbers, but their increase is only being slowed. 

A rate of up to does not mean that it always is that rate.  It has already been documented that some packs have had very few pups in certain years.  Also, killing an alpha male or female that is in the prime breeding years will have a greater impact on population that killing an adolescent.

Wyoming experienced the same drop in population.

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming-game-and-fish-proposes-cutting-wolf-quotas-by-half/article_c07266ae-cadf-5ad5-87d1-9c8b0b2f2354.html

[bearpaw]

Aaah, the good old "wolf lover" shots.  Funny how those always come out of the woodwork from the same folks whenever someone tends to disagree with the anti-wolf rhetoric that can be so pervasive around here.

Call it "kool-aid" or whatever you want Dale.  I won't stoop to making condescending insults at you because that's not my style.  I'm surprised it's yours, but whatever floats your boat.

Once again, you and your homies demonstrate the need to categorized by black and white.  Anyone that doesn't march in lock step with the Lobo Watch mantra is a wolf lover and drinking kool-aid.  If something contradicts that mantra, then it must be a cover up.

Like Idahohunter, I am extremely passionate about passing on my hunting heritage.  It is a never ending quest of mine to expose people to hunting in a favorable light that shows them the true meaning of the hunt, why we do it, and why we care.  It pisses me off to no end also when people do stuff that makes us all look like a bunch of knuckle dragging rednecks.

How you can say the nonsense that "wolves can never be managed", when Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have all reduced their wolf populations in several years through sport hunting and trapping?  All without the negative publicity that this derby stunt generated all in the name of "educating" people about a disease that can be avoided simply by washing your hands after you touch wolf crap.

JLS, I would say that your comments are rather contradictory and that you are not quite as righteous as you try to appear. 

I would also say that I see nothing wrong with derbies. We have coyote derbies all over Washington and fishing derbies too. Les Schwab tires even has a big buck derby every year that draws in a ton of business to their stores. So are you also opposed to all these derbies, some of which the members enjoy right here on this forum. Coyote Madness is one of our most popular topics every year on H-W. Or could it be that you are only opposed to having a derby for wolves for some special reason?

I think the more you try to cover up hunting the more it will be unacceptable and that is what has been happening in WA. Your strategy which is the same as WDFW is backfiring, you can't hide hunting and expect people to accept it. 

[JLS]

Not righteous at all Dale.  Not one bit.

And no, I don't like hunting derbies across the board.  I've never entered a big buck contest and have no plans to.

I don't hide hunting.  I seriously don't know where you come up with this nonsense.    I don't cover it up, I don't sterilize it, I tell and show it for what it is.  I KILL ANIMALS.  And, I show this to people that DO NOT HUNT.  I have had two adults ask me this year if I would teach them to hunt.  Both of them come from non-hunting families and have non-hunting friends.  So, you tell me that my approach is backfiring.

[Skyvalhunter]

Ok I am game, your approach is back firing.