Bowhunter chased up tree by wolves in GMU 121!

[deaner]

WDFW already admits they got no clue how many Elk are in the NE corner of Washington,  but if herd numbers decline they'll do a study to find out why. 
Oh they also said they'd limit hunting.

So what do you say to hunters that want to hunt in their home state after these small herds of Elk that don't bugle during the rut?  A small herd of Elk could easily be wiped out beyond recovery by a pack of wolves if the winter is bad.  So far they've all been mild but the first heavy snowfall winter we get will realize all the doom and gloom the "wackjob anti's" been spouting about.

ive got a kind of a core area i spend most of my time in here in the huckleberry unit, and we have some elk around, but theyre very few in number.  as it is they can barely keep up with the predation from cougars and bears.  out of maybe a dozen or so cows ive had on my cams this year, and half a dozen or so ive watched with my own two eyes, looks like one calf made it this year.  and looked like one yearling cow in the whole bunch, like one that made it last year.  i know im not seeing all of them that are around, but the population here IS small and one calf surviving in a year out of 12-20 cows is not good.  oh and did i say we dont have any wolf issues here in this area yet?  that poor recruitment rate is just from the cats and bears we already have problems with.  now if a wolf pack moves in, how do you think our small elk population is going to fare?   this is NOT yellowstone.  say what you will about the wolves taking down an oversized herd there, yellowstone being overgrazed and needing wolves, blah blah. but that is NOT the reality here.  the reality here is this little elk population is already struggling and throwing a bunch of wolves into the mix will be end of them.  its just a matter of time.

[KFhunter]

Much like Yellowstone, the Bison and Elk will literally hug people and activity to get away from the wolves,

Something tells me that's not why elk hang out around the country club in Longview, WA. Nor is it why people in Kentucky  (where elk have no real predators, have a 92% calf survival rate and are about 15% bigger than their western counterparts) are starting to complain about elk invading their gardens and property.

Nice try to distort this situation in Kentucky to try and say wolves are needed. But that's more wolf lover rubbish. All that Kentucky has to do is liberalize hunting seasons to control elk populations. Wolves are not needed. 

Where do I sign up to chase bison in YNP?  I heard they had some over population issues.

[bearpaw]

screw the livestock owners
screw the small herds of elk


Hey, as long as you got some Elk to chase around in Idaho right 

That's exactly the way the wolf lovers think, screw everyone else. The wolf lovers on this forum are no different, they will say anything to shift the blame of wolf impacts and distort the truth. Wolf groups fund their own biologists to help perpetuate their wolf propaganda and they have infiltrated F&G Depts and doing the same within F&G Depts. Unfortunately even some well-meaning hunters fall for the proganda and koolaid.

The fact is that many people in Idaho took wolf management into their own hands before there was ever any wolf season established. Otter was elected governor because he said he wanted the first wolf tag in Idaho. Then the governor of Idaho aided the people of Idaho in helping many of their big game herds by directing IDFG that they could not report wolf poachers to the feds. Wolves were shot on sight year around in many areas of Idaho and that slowed the growth of the wolf population in many areas. Anyone who doesn't believe what I say can go to any small town in Idaho and confirm the fact that locals readily say they have been killing wolves since before there were any wolf seasons in an effort to try and control them. Now with a wolf season and wolf trapping in place wolf populations are being somewhat controlled and this has really given some of the herds some relief from wolf predation. But wolf lovers will distort how wolf management has evolved and how it has really unfolded and they will try to say this is proof that wolves will not decimate herds. The real truth is that Idaho residents have been killing a lot of wolves for several years and this proves that wolves must be heavily managed (shot on sight year around) to help the big game herds. 

The wolf lovers will distort the truth and do anything to try and cover up the real life consequences of wolves. We've got a handful of these misled individuals on this forum who try to distort the facts and shift the blame to propogate wolves. Some of these individuals are probably not even hunters, they are likely wolf lovers posing as hunters.

Talk about spewing rubbish......

The facts speak for themselves, if the shoe fits wear it....

[KFhunter]

I find it ironic that JLS and Idahohntr are beneficiaries of illegal wolf killing in masse by Idaho residents, then come on here to tell us all how good Elk hunting is in Idaho and how the wolves aren't decimating the herds.


hypocrisy at it's finest.

[JLS]

I find it ironic that JLS and IDhohntr are beneficiaries of illegal wolf killing in masse by Idaho residents, then come on here to taut how good Elk hunting is in Idaho and how the wolves aren't decimating the herds.

hypocrisy at it's finest.

Didn't I just tell you that I hunt in Montana?  I don't derive any benefit from the alleged behavior Dale reports.

Selective memory at it's finest.

[KFhunter]

oh ya!  I guess you did, my apologies JLS.


The boys in Montana would never SSS 

[JLS]

screw the livestock owners
screw the small herds of elk


Hey, as long as you got some Elk to chase around in Idaho right 

That's exactly the way the wolf lovers think, screw everyone else. The wolf lovers on this forum are no different, they will say anything to shift the blame of wolf impacts and distort the truth. Wolf groups fund their own biologists to help perpetuate their wolf propaganda and they have infiltrated F&G Depts and doing the same within F&G Depts. Unfortunately even some well-meaning hunters fall for the proganda and koolaid.

The fact is that many people in Idaho took wolf management into their own hands before there was ever any wolf season established. Otter was elected governor because he said he wanted the first wolf tag in Idaho. Then the governor of Idaho aided the people of Idaho in helping many of their big game herds by directing IDFG that they could not report wolf poachers to the feds. Wolves were shot on sight year around in many areas of Idaho and that slowed the growth of the wolf population in many areas. Anyone who doesn't believe what I say can go to any small town in Idaho and confirm the fact that locals readily say they have been killing wolves since before there were any wolf seasons in an effort to try and control them. Now with a wolf season and wolf trapping in place wolf populations are being somewhat controlled and this has really given some of the herds some relief from wolf predation. But wolf lovers will distort how wolf management has evolved and how it has really unfolded and they will try to say this is proof that wolves will not decimate herds. The real truth is that Idaho residents have been killing a lot of wolves for several years and this proves that wolves must be heavily managed (shot on sight year around) to help the big game herds. 

The wolf lovers will distort the truth and do anything to try and cover up the real life consequences of wolves. We've got a handful of these misled individuals on this forum who try to distort the facts and shift the blame to propogate wolves. Some of these individuals are probably not even hunters, they are likely wolf lovers posing as hunters.

Talk about spewing rubbish......

The facts speak for themselves, if the shoe fits wear it....

Where have I EVER spoken for the need to propogate more wolves.  I have reiterated my stance over and over, which does absolutely no good because you just repeat whatever fits your agenda.

When the facts are contrary to your thinking, then they are distorted and a cover up.  When they support your thinking then everyone else is misled if they don't fully agree with them.

One can recognize the REAL WORLD impacts of wolves without buying into the paranoia that can be rampant at times.  Everyone else is misled, except those that agree with Dale.   

Talk about hypocrisy.

[JLS]

oh ya!  I guess you did, my apologies JLS.


The boys in Montana would never SSS 

Maybe the do.  I don't know anyone that has but I'm sure there are.  Given the fact that hunters have only been killing about 150-200 wolves a year, I'm doubting that poachers are having all that significant of an impact on the wolves. 

Your conspiracy theory may vary.

[KFhunter]

ya, I'm hanging in the wind on that statement - not something you can back up with googled stats.


We know it happens though.  I would speculate that unreported wolf kills far outnumber those reported.  The people doing it would be the people that live and work there, not go for a few days for a hunt.

[idahohuntr]

I find it ironic that JLS and Idahohntr are beneficiaries of illegal wolf killing in masse by Idaho residents, then come on here to tell us all how good Elk hunting is in Idaho and how the wolves aren't decimating the herds.

hypocrisy at it's finest.

wolves are difficult to kill, that is why they have had to resort to aerial gunning and hired trappers in the hardest hit areas in north-central idaho.  So contrary to the bs that bearpaw spews, poaching wolves prior to de-listing had minimal effect on the wolf population...particularly where wolves were having the greatest impact on elk...which is why wolf numbers grew exponentially until just a couple years ago.  Yes, rural folks were killing wolves (the most common method involved sponges)...but I can also tell you that it had little or no impact on the population. 40,000 or so wolf hunters killed roughly 200 wolves last year in Idaho...a few vigilante folks in small towns did not result in many wolf kills.

I find it hilarious that bearpaw thinks anyone but the town bar flies would give him so much as the time of day with respect to hunting/wolves etc...go into a rural Idaho town and tell the folks you are a non-resident washingtonian hunting guide... You might as well be the head of wolf recovery and reintroductions!

[KFhunter]

If you were really in touch as you say you'd know sponges do not work.  I get a good laugh every time someone brings up sponges 

[KFhunter]

Hey why don't you tell me about the one with the blood popsicle, you know the ones with the knife or razor blade in the ice where they lick themselves to death 


that's a knee slapper

[bearpaw]

First of all tar sands have nothing to do with wolves destroying elk herds. Completely different topics.

 

Sitka you are just a another wolf lover posing as a hunter and spewing propaganda to try and propagate your precious wolves. Elk herds were in good shape and in many cases at near record population levels in most areas where wolves have caused dramatic declines in big game populations. F&G Depts have had to make significant decreases in hunter opportunity to try and conserve the few remaining elk, moose, and deer.

Aww shucks Dale you found me out. I've never hunted a day in my life and never saw an animal outside of a zoo. I don't really have a clue what I'm talking about. Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and smug now?

First of all, I didn't bring up the tar sands in this thread, Pianoman9701 did with this link.
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/04/12/albertas-tar-sand-pits-create-deer-wolves-and-decimate-mountain-caribou/

I was just pointing out to him that there are other opinions of the situation than those in the link he provided.

As for loving wolves, I can take them or leave them, they've never made a difference in my hunting in Alaska. Nature takes care of predators in the long run. They go up and down with the prey species, usually a couple years behind in the cycle of things. And they've certainly never threatened me or anyone I know out hunting. The only real threat from wolves is to livestock and pets. People should be able to defend their animals. People should be able to hunt and trap wolves. That isn't going to happen until a stable population has established itself unfortunately. All the demonization and fear of wolves isn't going to help that along and frankly it makes hunters look silly.

I realize as a "professional" guide, in some cases it can affect your bottom line,  if you want animals to be in X spot when you have a client and they've been pushed out of the area due to a pack of wolves coming through. But when you are all doom and gloom about wolves wiping prey animals out but then I see you offering doe hunts with multiple tags per hunter, I have to laugh. 

And when I hear stories of hunters climbing trees and trembling in fear of wolves I have to roll my eyes and wonder "where are the hunters of yesteryear?".  Like Fred Bear stepping out from behind a rock to arrow the world record Brown Bear. Go to 6:05 to watch and see if Fred was quivering in his boots, and climbing trees, waiting for his shot. (His camera man was a different story. lol)  Fred Bear Historical Hunting Footage.flv

Sitka,
I posted this topic to help shed some light on what is happening with wolves here in NE WA. I've been busy hunting and was unable to follow all the misleading wolf lovers rubbish that has been spewed in my topic to distract the discussion away from the problems we are facing in NE WA.

We need some sanity on the state level so that we can protect ourselves without risking financial ruin due to the insane management policies adopted by WDFW. Why must a citizen in NE WA weather the impacts of wolves while wolf lovers like yourself sit smugly in your home no where near the problem and force terror on the citizens of NE WA and other areas of the west with your quest to bring back wolves across the US to satisfy your own images of wolf grandeur. Then to claim that herds have not suffered extreme impacts due to wolves is ludicrous.

You have no clue what it's like to be surrounded by wolves that know no fear of man. If you ever even were in Alaska the wolves you have been around were hunted and had a fear of man so they do not make it a habit of surrounding humans. But individuals like yourself apparently don't care what happens to other people, the problem is in NE WA, it doesn't affect you or your family. The individual I speak about was simply smart enough to seek safety in the tree rather than risk being attacked and he also avoided his life being ruined by the courts and personal attacks by wolf lovers for protecting himself against wolves.

The McIrvins were terrorized by the wolf lovers with death threats after their cattle were terrorized and eaten by wolves. Where has the sanity gone in our society? I have watched these wolf lovers who like to pose like they are hunters and try to rationalize arguments for wolves, your comments reek of this same misled ideology, why would I ever believe that you are any type of hunter and not just another wolf lover posing as a hunter to further your ideological cause?

BTW, nice try on the sound byte about the multiple deer tag hunts I offer. 

Again you are distorting facts. The hunts I offer with multiple tags were in eastern Montana in an area that had no wolf impacts plus there is cougar hunting with dogs which helps to keep cougar numbers under control. The deer thrive there and multiple tags are part of the very successful management of deer in that area. Once the wolves move in as they have in western Montana that additional opportunity for humans will disappear as it has in most parts of western Montana.

Are you opposed to humans being able to hunt more than one deer? Is there something wrong with that?

Nice try bud. 

[idahohuntr]

Not saying sponges worked...hence my point that any form of poaching had little effect on the wolf population that grew exponentially    Just noting that it was very common...I walked a lot of ridge lines in the St. Joe, Lochsa, N. Fk Clearwater drainages that had sponges on them...like the little sponge fairy was just going gangbusters. 

And frankly, I thought wolves should have been hunted for years before they were finally de-listed in Idaho anyways...and I know this doesn't fit your little wolf-lover label...but as I mentioned earlier I used to have a much more similar view as many on here about wolves.  I often joked with hunting buddies that they did not have to worry about poaching a wolf as long as they could get an Idaho jury...no way out of 12 jurors would you get 12 to say guilty...probably true in NE WA as well...except if they tried you in Seattle you would get the death penalty 

[bearpaw]

I find it ironic that JLS and Idahohntr are beneficiaries of illegal wolf killing in masse by Idaho residents, then come on here to tell us all how good Elk hunting is in Idaho and how the wolves aren't decimating the herds.

hypocrisy at it's finest.

wolves are difficult to kill, that is why they have had to resort to aerial gunning and hired trappers in the hardest hit areas in north-central idaho.  So contrary to the bs that bearpaw spews, poaching wolves prior to de-listing had minimal effect on the wolf population...particularly where wolves were having the greatest impact on elk...which is why wolf numbers grew exponentially until just a couple years ago.  Yes, rural folks were killing wolves (the most common method involved sponges)...but I can also tell you that it had little or no impact on the population. 40,000 or so wolf hunters killed roughly 200 wolves last year in Idaho...a few vigilante folks in small towns did not result in many wolf kills.

I find it hilarious that bearpaw thinks anyone but the town bar flies would give him so much as the time of day with respect to hunting/wolves etc...go into a rural Idaho town and tell the folks you are a non-resident washingtonian hunting guide... You might as well be the head of wolf recovery and reintroductions!

Laugh all you want, but I guess it's a little different than you think. Maybe you aren't as smart as you think? You don't have to tell anyone who you are, just talk wolves and learn how the locals have taken care of the problem in many areas. 

FYI, I have tried to explain to the Commission and Dept how this whole wolf fiasco is not healthy for wildlife management attitudes, but it has fallen on deaf ears. So what ever happens with locals here in WA isn't because I didn't offer some rationalism.

Certain areas, currently the "Frank" do not have good access and are not close to human population so they need professional wolf hunters to relieve the wolf impacts. For the record I find it interesting that some of you guys claim wolves don't decimate herds yet you acknowledge the need for aerial gunning of wolves.