SB 6281 Would Allow Hunter Ed Instructors to Require Live-Fire Training 4 Minors

[lokidog]

1998 or so to 2004 or so, the team I taught with in Lacey did live fire with .243s and 12 or 20 g shotguns.  I think everyone was required to shoot and they had to at least hit the berm with the rifle.  It was tough for the smaller framed shooters, especially the shotgun.  I didn't think it was quite fair to require a kid to shoot a gun that was too big for them.

Our program just secured three youth sized .22 rifles. I think it will help the smaller shooters.

That's awesome Bob, it would be nice to see other programs get some youth guns as well. 

    

[hiway_99]

When my daughter took the course two years ago every student had to shoot a 20 gauge 3 times.  The students had to maintain control of the firearm and have proper muzzle control.  My daughter did it at age 9.  There was a very good selection of 20 gauge shot guns.  They had several youth models to boot.  I like the live fire so instuctors can see if a student can actually handle the firearms properly.  There just needs to be minium caliber or gauge restrictions to keep it fair across the board.  There's a big difference between the recoil of a 22 and a 243.

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[pianoman9701]

I agree with Bob. Live fire isn't possible in some classes. They don't have a range to access. It's great when it's possible. The final outside course determines the individual's ability to handle the firearm safely. This should be a no vote.

[bigtex]

Senators Benton (R) and Conway (D) have added themselves as sponsors of this bill

[pianoman9701]

Senators Benton (R) and Conway (D) have added themselves as sponsors of this bill

Thanks for letting me know. I'll make sure Sen Benton has another perspective on this.

[JLS]

I could care less if my kids are exposed to live fire in hunter ed.  As long as they can handle a gun safely, great.  A .243 for some kids is a good invitation to developing a flinch.

[Bob33]

1998 or so to 2004 or so, the team I taught with in Lacey did live fire with .243s and 12 or 20 g shotguns.  I think everyone was required to shoot and they had to at least hit the berm with the rifle.  It was tough for the smaller framed shooters, especially the shotgun.  I didn't think it was quite fair to require a kid to shoot a gun that was too big for them.

Our program just secured three youth sized .22 rifles. I think it will help the smaller shooters.

That's awesome Bob, it would be nice to see other programs get some youth guns as well. 

I don't know if I should admit it here 

..but we used some of the funds our program received from student donations to purchase the rifles.

We collect $20 for the class but refund $15 to everyone that attends. Some students voluntarily donate a portion of the $15 back to the program. 

[CP]

My daughter was required to live fire when she took the course a few years ago.  She used my vintage 1966 Browning A5 but ammunition was provided.  Apparently policy is not always followed.

[Bob33]

My daughter was required to live fire when she took the course a few years ago.  She used my vintage 1966 Browning A5 but ammunition was provided.  Apparently policy is not always followed.

The policy was implemented in 2012.

[CP]

Thanks for clarifying that Bob. 

I see that this bill also makes it mandatory for the director to establish (changes may establish to shall establish) and maintain the training program.  I vote YES for this one.

[Bob33]

This is the current Live Fire policy:

Live-Fire Optional

Policy: Live-fire activities are optional.

WDFW Hunter Education staff strongly encourages Instructors to include both live-firing and field course activities in all courses, but live-firing is not required. Student participation is not mandatory and a student may not fail the course for declining the opportunity to shoot. However, a student opting out of live-fire exercises still must complete all associated steps using inert (dummy) ammunition. Students who opt out of live-fire will still have all related handling skills evaluated using the WDFW Field Skills Training and Evaluation Form, see appendix.

If live-fire occurs, one certified Hunter Education Instructor shall serve as range officer and assume responsibility for supervision of overall range activities and for the roles of other certified Instructors, Instructor applicants and registered volunteer employees. Marksmanship is not a program objective and students may not fail Hunter Education training as a result of poor marksmanship skills.

[pianoman9701]

Thanks for clarifying that Bob. 

I see that this bill also makes it mandatory for the director to establish (changes may establish to shall establish) and maintain the training program.  I vote YES for this one.

You're going to eliminate a great many classes which don't have access to ranges, then. As an instructor, I vote no. The field course is still mandatory in every class and establishes the student's level of awareness and safety/muzzle control.

[steen]

That is a "loaded"  question!  I put no because there are so many variables to work out.  When hunter safety is all done (even if you do a shoot) it is still the parent's responsibility to continue safety in gun handling.  There are always the ones who are poor examples as with anything.  Anytime you add more rules to something to me it is never better.  To me, hunter safety really is more about teaching kids who don't have parents that know how to handle firearms.I have learned more teaching hunter safety than I ever did taking hunter safety.
For example: It would be similar to giving a 12 hour class on how to ride a horse and expecting someone to be able to just know how to ride.  It's not that simple. 
There will never be enough class time to teach them everything so why add more?

[bigtex]

There has been a change to this bill. The changes to the bill are when an instructor requires live-fire training DFW will provide notice of the particular class requirement when publishing the class schedules. The amendment also removes the ability for a student to bring their personal firearm to class.

The amended bill passed out of the committee with no opposition and now sits in the Senate Rules Committee which will schedule the bill for a full Senate vote.