cougars killing wolves

[Hornseeker]

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/mountain-lions-kill-collared-wolves-in-bitterroot/article_68c0c60c-d792-59e3-b736-5b10c17eb10a.html

http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2014/03/national-geographic-wild-goes-to-montanas-bitterroot-mountains/

[Humptulips]

Cougars are  different then wolves, in the fact they will bury their kills and eat on them later, wolves eat their fill and go kill again. Past studies reported that one cougar will kill fifty deer per year.

I don't believe this is true as a rule. I've seen quite a few cougar kills and my Dad was a long time houndman so chased a number. Here's what I think happens or at least what I've observed. A cougar  or family of cougar makes a kill they will fill up and then go lay up somewhere to digest. When they get up they go hunting. If they make another kill they don't go back to the first. So I think in a area with plentiful game often you will find cougar kills that have been eaten on once or twice and a lot left. If the game is scarce they will keep going back until it is cleaned up or near cleaned up.

I really don't think it matters a lot. They are both unmanaged predator populations in this state and their effect is additive.

From what I've seen you are both correct, depends on the cougar, some bury, some don't. The majority of kills I find are mostly eaten if the cat has been left undisturbed, I'm often amazed at how little is left. I've also seen cats come back a week or two later (during winter) to dig up and chew on bones from an earlier kill. Sometimes they do leave uneaten portions, but often I think that might have been caused by human, dog, or other disturbance. Wolves will also steal their kills, although I haven't personally seen that yet, I know guys who have seen it a lot in areas with more wolves.

oh they will adapt to whatever food source they need to survive!  I know the cct tribe has been doing research on the couple of packs on their rez and moose have been the preferred choice in the early stages of residency!  They say mule deer is preferred prey of a cougar, doesn't mean whitetail and turkeys don't hit the menu! They adapt to whatever prey is abundant! My guess is the lookout pack will move south to the bigger elk herds before to long!

  I think they target the abundant specie in their area, but a guy I know on one study told me they found evidence of every type of animal in wolf poo. Even cougar and grizzly! Cougars will do the same, whatever gets in the way is on the menu, and occasionally that is wolf or even hound. It's all a matter of survival, people have even eat other people at times to survive.

I will tell you this they have just about wiped out the beaver population on the Penninsula. I was talking to a bioligist and the Makahs are doing a study on cougar. He said the preliminary results showed that certain cougars keyed on one species of prey.
If you think about it that makes good sense. An individual gets good at catching something they are going to keep hunting what they are comfortable with so a particular cougar is looking for beaver it is likely to eat mostly beaver. Same with another that learns deer hunting or elk hunting. Not saying they aren't going to go after targets of oppurtunity though.

[KFhunter]

I just watched a documentary about this, surprised it has not been brought up, about this exact topic. It was in the bitter root range, was very interesting. The guy was trying to find out more about wolf and lion interactions. What he found was that in areas where wolves don't group up, lions are the top predator. They will kill wolves, but in areas that wolves group up in numbers they were the top predator such as yellow stone park. Was a good watch, think it was called cougars vs wolves.


My opinion is wolves in most area's are the top predator, a lion can take on two wolves but any more and wolves have the upper hand

No one mentioned the landscape factor,  open scrub and rocky areas vs timber


lot's of brush and rocks with no trees to go up the cats would be in trouble with a good group of wolves, but add a bunch of trees they'll just shoot up one of them.



imagine the fight it'd be if the wolves got a big nasty tom on the ground with no trees around 

[wolfbait]

I don't think it would last very long, wolves have it down when it comes to killing. One wolf/cougar the cat might win two wolves and the cat is gone. Would be a hell of a fight to watch though,

[CAMPMEAT]

I just watched a documentary about this, surprised it has not been brought up, about this exact topic. It was in the bitter root range, was very interesting. The guy was trying to find out more about wolf and lion interactions. What he found was that in areas where wolves don't group up, lions are the top predator. They will kill wolves, but in areas that wolves group up in numbers they were the top predator such as yellow stone park. Was a good watch, think it was called cougars vs wolves.


My opinion is wolves in most area's are the top predator, a lion can take on two wolves but any more and wolves have the upper hand

I just watched that today. I found it by mistake flipping through channels.  Natgeo (?) also stated that a cougar killed a bull elk and a lone wolf came by, sniffed the elk and pretty much left the area. Natgeo also stated that the cougar fed off of the elk for 2 months. That sounds kind of funny to me. 

[singleshot12]

I could see a hungry solo cougar taking advantage of and eating a den of wolf pups while the pack is out hunting. Go Cougs!

[bearpaw]

Cougars are  different then wolves, in the fact they will bury their kills and eat on them later, wolves eat their fill and go kill again. Past studies reported that one cougar will kill fifty deer per year.

I don't believe this is true as a rule. I've seen quite a few cougar kills and my Dad was a long time houndman so chased a number. Here's what I think happens or at least what I've observed. A cougar  or family of cougar makes a kill they will fill up and then go lay up somewhere to digest. When they get up they go hunting. If they make another kill they don't go back to the first. So I think in a area with plentiful game often you will find cougar kills that have been eaten on once or twice and a lot left. If the game is scarce they will keep going back until it is cleaned up or near cleaned up.

I really don't think it matters a lot. They are both unmanaged predator populations in this state and their effect is additive.

From what I've seen you are both correct, depends on the cougar, some bury, some don't. The majority of kills I find are mostly eaten if the cat has been left undisturbed, I'm often amazed at how little is left. I've also seen cats come back a week or two later (during winter) to dig up and chew on bones from an earlier kill. Sometimes they do leave uneaten portions, but often I think that might have been caused by human, dog, or other disturbance. Wolves will also steal their kills, although I haven't personally seen that yet, I know guys who have seen it a lot in areas with more wolves.

oh they will adapt to whatever food source they need to survive!  I know the cct tribe has been doing research on the couple of packs on their rez and moose have been the preferred choice in the early stages of residency!  They say mule deer is preferred prey of a cougar, doesn't mean whitetail and turkeys don't hit the menu! They adapt to whatever prey is abundant! My guess is the lookout pack will move south to the bigger elk herds before to long!

  I think they target the abundant specie in their area, but a guy I know on one study told me they found evidence of every type of animal in wolf poo. Even cougar and grizzly! Cougars will do the same, whatever gets in the way is on the menu, and occasionally that is wolf or even hound. It's all a matter of survival, people have even eat other people at times to survive.

I will tell you this they have just about wiped out the beaver population on the Penninsula. I was talking to a bioligist and the Makahs are doing a study on cougar. He said the preliminary results showed that certain cougars keyed on one species of prey.
If you think about it that makes good sense. An individual gets good at catching something they are going to keep hunting what they are comfortable with so a particular cougar is looking for beaver it is likely to eat mostly beaver. Same with another that learns deer hunting or elk hunting. Not saying they aren't going to go after targets of oppurtunity though.

   Especially young cats that are not good at catching larger prey, we find beaver kills fairly often, this winter we found beaver killed by a young female cougar, beaver dams always seem to be a good place to find various predators.

Cougar, wolves, coyotes, and even bear and other predators, they are all trying to eat and stay alive what ever works best for them and whatever gets in the way that they can catch might be a meal.

[Greg Mullins]

I hope cougars eat wolves.Like 5 a week would be great.

[singleshot12]

So it sounds like a pack of wolves will dominate an area once they move in pushing the cats elsewhere. Either way it's a vicious cycle and there with be no balance unless we are aloud to run dogs,bait, and or let the state poison them again.

[jackmaster]

A cougar can eat two deer a week. A wolf eats 20 deer per year.

Which would you rather see survive?

wolves eat more than 20 a year not to mention elk, yeah cougar eat probably more deer than they do elk, i have found alot of cougar kills, bear also love to eat deer fawns and elk calves, the GREAT BIG PROBLEM HERE is WDFW has taken away every effective method in controling bear and cougar, and with wolves in the mix the only losers are the elk and deer, moose and the few woodland carribou

[bearpaw]

I think it's pretty much a push between wolves and cougar except that wolves will be harder on our moose and elk while cougar are usually harder on deer populations. Idaho has selected a strategy of reducing wolf, cougar, and bear populations to lessen the impact of wolf predation. If we are going to have wolves this is probably the best strategy to control all predator populations to prevent declines in prey species.


HOW MUCH DO WOLVES EAT
During a study in Yellowstone Park, 24 wolves were observed for 1 month in 1997 and 57 wolves were observed for 1 month in 1998. A total of 81 wolves were observed for a one month period and 114 kills were observed. This included 106 elk, 6 moose, 1 mule deer, and 1 bison. The average kill rate was 1.4 elk per wolf per month. That study indicates that 1 wolf will eat  17 elk per year. It would require 44 deer to equal the same body mass as 17 elk. So at that rate, 100 wolves will eat about 1700 elk or 4400 deer per year, but 500 wolves will eat about 8,500 elk or 22,000 deer per year...(USGS Study)  http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mammals/severity/results.htm#table1

HOW MUCH DO COUGARS EAT
•A large male cougar living in the Cascade Mountains kills a deer or elk every 9 to 12 days, eating up to 20 pounds at a time and burying the rest for later. http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/cougars.html
 (That is 30 to 40 deer per year, I would suggest that small cougars may eat fewer deer but a female with kittens likely kills more)

[bearpaw]

The hound hunters I know in several wolf impacted areas of Idaho believe that the cougar numbers were diminished by less prey available and by loss of their kills to wolf packs, it makes sense to me. I would also agree that 1 cougar will likely kill 1 wolf, but packs of wolves are known to eat cougar.

[boneaddict]

and then there are the ones on a killing spree.  The second wolf encounter I had was with one that had killed a minimum of 50 deer in less than about 3 days and was in the midst of killing one when I rudely interrupted.   It was unreal.   I think it was fun for him.   I know there is documented evidence of cats also doing this.  I have seen it a couple times, but not nearly as prolific or devastating.     One of the great cat killers of all time has a good story of him trailing one down in the scabrock country, Arizona or Utah.    All other anecdotal evidence I have seen, I would say cats clean up their kills a lot more efficiently than wolves, clear down to eating the marrow out of the bones. 

[bearpaw]

and then there are the ones on a killing spree.  The second wolf encounter I had was with one that had killed a minimum of 50 deer in less than about 3 days and was in the midst of killing one when I rudely interrupted.   It was unreal.   I think it was fun for him.   I know there is documented evidence of cats also doing this.  I have seen it a couple times, but not nearly as prolific or devastating.     One of the great cat killers of all time has a good story of him trailing one down in the scabrock country, Arizona or Utah.    All other anecdotal evidence I have seen, I would say cats clean up their kills a lot more efficiently than wolves, clear down to eating the marrow out of the bones.

Agreed, the cats often eat nearly everything, all that may be left is part of the skull, jaw, a few pieces of the spine, forelegs, hooves, and hair. From what I have seen in my many years of cat hunting I don't think sport killing is as prevalent with cougar.

[jackmaster]

and then there are the ones on a killing spree.  The second wolf encounter I had was with one that had killed a minimum of 50 deer in less than about 3 days and was in the midst of killing one when I rudely interrupted.   It was unreal.   I think it was fun for him.   I know there is documented evidence of cats also doing this.  I have seen it a couple times, but not nearly as prolific or devastating.     One of the great cat killers of all time has a good story of him trailing one down in the scabrock country, Arizona or Utah.    All other anecdotal evidence I have seen, I would say cats clean up their kills a lot more efficiently than wolves, clear down to eating the marrow out of the bones.

Agreed, the cats often eat nearly everything, all that may be left is part of the skull, jaw, a few pieces of the spine, forelegs, hooves, and hair. From what I have seen in my many years of cat hunting I don't think sport killing is as prevalent with cougar.

i agree but cougars are oppurtunists, i once found 3 fresh cougar kills ina 100yrd stretch, wolves are the same way though, i have also found that a big cat if given the oppurtunity will bury their catch until it get alittle funky, i have heard that wolves like their meat a little more on the fresher side, the sad thing is any way you slice it are game animals pay the ultimate price and it pisses me off to no end that WDFW, the department that is put in charge to protect are game are falling down on the job, sure we need predators, but they need to be kept in check at a better rate than what is being done, there are a couple places that i use to hunt that are almost non existant of deer anymore do to the exploding cat population, its sad to see, when the wolves make a show on this side its gonna be real bad, though i doubt the wolves could do any real damage to the blacktail but the elk and farm animals sure the heck wont have a chance