The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”

[Axle]

Here we are 18 years later, we have seen what the wolves have done in other states and yet WDFW are playing the same game as the USFWS did through their wolf push on the three hardest states to introduce wolves in once the truth was known. We shouldn't even be talking about this from the history that we now know, WDFW should be hunting these wolves as a predator instead of protecting them above all else.

So true Wolfbait. It is the anti hunting and anti 2nd amendment crowd that is behind this and there are some people who call themselves hunters who go along with this corruption. They aren't hunters though.
Once they rid us of huntable ungulates, they will say - what do you need guns for? Their objective is obvious to a normal-minded person.
I pray that good overcomes evil in this challenge.

[timberfaller]

"I think you've got it backwards. Old growth was protected to save the spotted owl."

Which goes back to my question, bobcat.

Was/is the Spotted Owl a "timber" bird??

This might help you answer,  the research was given to a politician before "it" was listed, it was not entered into the debate.  I wonder WHY!!!! 

Can anyone on here HELP him out,  I would hate to think I am the only one who knows.   I know there are a few other(old) loggers on here.  Young ones would most likely not know all the details.

[bobcat]

Timberfaller,

I really don't understand what you're getting at. But yes, spotted owls do live in "timber," more specifically old growth timber. It's what they do best in and what they prefer. Does that answer your question?

[timberfaller]

Nope,  you have to go to their "beginning"

They are in timber now.  BUT when first discovered they were not.

Sorry but I am not used to quick responses on this site.  All my other ones take  anywhere from half an hour to a day!!

[bobcat]

I'm not so sure about that. But if that is true, maybe they are trying to avoid the barred owls, which are a newcomer to this state.

[jasnt]

One way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.

Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.

Actually Aspenbud, I didn't know too much about the ESA until the wolves, since then I have learned quite a bit as have several others. I guess the fraud of the wolf introduction has alerted several about the ESA, EPA, DOE and the crooks that run them.

What we are seeing here on W-H are those who support crooks also support the wolves that were Illegally introduced. My guess is you know right from wrong, but the agenda and $$$$ means more.

+1

[timberfaller]

Ok, no ones seems to want to bite.

The Spotted Owl was NOT a bird found in "timber" when discovered and studied.  You'll find the study in a National Geographic magazine, if you can find one!!!  Dated 1910, I have forgotten the month.

What happened between 1910 and the Owl being used as a pawn to shut down logging by Greenie Groups(lawyers) and crooked politicians(bought and paid for) was the OWL was forced into the "timber" by the expansion of "city dwellers".  AKA, Seattle, Olympia, Vancouver,Portland on down the Pacific coast.  And of course, most people know that the main argument of the Greenies is "Old Growth" and the myth that it can live forever.

The Spotted Owl preferred to nest in Rocks and under the eve's of Houses.  BUT it lacked the ability to "adapt" to the increase of "human" presence, so it started to migrate to the "timber" where it meet the Barred Owl.  Who is more aggressive in nature then the timid Spotted Owl.   The rest is history.

Now for the "scam".  Did any of you hear during the Spotted Owl scam, about the Barred Owl attacking and killing the Spotted Owl?   Did any of you see the St. Rigis pictures of Spotted Owls nesting in the "bone yards" in culverts, While acres of "old growth" surrounded the yards???

A Pinkerton man, gave ALL that information to a "politician" and he refused to take it into account.  Said man gave that information to his daughter, had he not I and a bunch of others would never had seen it.  For just days after informing "politician" The Pinkerton man's home was ransacked top to bottom.   And that to is history.

If the Spotted Owl goes extinct, it will not be the fault of evil loggers but because of wacked out scientist, greenies(using ESA), and the Barred Owl.  The "scientist" believe the way to save the Owl now, because stopping old growth logging didn't bring their numbers back, is to go into the forest and "shoot" the Barred Owl and balance out the "numbers" between them and the Spotted Owl

 

[Special T]

Dont Confuse me with FACTS Timberfaller...I know what i've been told by the good people with my best intentions in mind... Take off your  !         

[j_h_nimrod]

I am not even sure what the original premise of this thread was now but going toward the Spotted Owl portion of the argument I remember when the whole issue made nation wide headlines. It was certainly the loggers and the decimation of the old growth timbers that were wiping out the species, until they actually tried to figure out where the owl habituated and the old growth was not it. Damn! A swing and a miss!  Oh well precedent is already set and now everyone knows old growth is the only habitat that the owl can survive in. And then (as was said above) everyone figured out the Barred Owl was keeping the species from recovering.

There has been so much misinformation and blatently false information over the years that no one really has a clue any more. As far as I can recall over the years the official Spotted Owl preferred habitat has changed at least three times. This was all a ruse by the rotten greenies who do not care about anything except getting their agenda forwarded.

The ESA is a good tool, for the greenies. So far it has done very little for the rest of the country and likely done more harm than otherwise.

[hunter399]

I did work in the woods for 10 years in northeast washington and do agree never seen a owl in big timber.They seemed to like stands that were 25-50 year old stands.I can only speak for northeast washington but the state is already logging alot of the big timber for fire danger,and it does create alot of jobs .They woulnd rather get the money for it then see it burn.That does not mean i agree with the way they do it though.They leave 50-100 trees per acre calling them wildlife trees or seed trees.These trees have alot of space and exposed to alot sun that they didnt have before .So some die from over sun or a big wind storm comes up in the winter and can blow over all the trees they left .I have seen them have to go back after winter and take all the (seed trees) they left because of this.I do think all forests shoulnd be harvested cut back and all that.For fire danger health of forest ect.But think they shound be takeing a clear cut deal leaveing stips of big timber like on a ski hill.maybe 5 acre wide strips up mountains leaving 10-20 acre strips wide of big timber.Creates jods,fire breaks,habitat,and nice glassing area for hunters.Dont want any state land,national forest developed were already loseing hunting ground as it is dont wanna see houses litter the mountain side ,so they can use whatever reason they want dont matter to me call it endangerd speicies works for me.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

The spotted owl was a distraction to keep people from noticing that all the timber jobs were going over seas (just like many other jobs) because the ban on exporting unprocessed logs was lifted by the Reagan administration. And it worked. While everyone was fighting and arguing over the spotted owl, no one noticed that most of the true old growth forests had long since been cut and most logging is done in second and third growth tree farms and most of the wood is sent overseas to be processed.

[bobcat]

Spotted owls do live in old growth and that's what they prefer and what they do best in. That has never changed that I know of and I don't believe any scientist has ever said that spotted owls habitat is anything other than old growth timber.

[bobcat]

This is from the Fish & Wildlife Service:

Habitat

Northern spotted owls live in forests characterized by dense canopy closure of mature and old-growth trees, abundant logs, standing snags, and live trees with broken tops. Although they are known to nest, roost, and feed in a wide variety of habitat types, spotted owls prefer older forest stands with variety: multi-layered canopies of several tree species of varying size and age, both standing and fallen dead trees, and open space among the lower branches to allow flight under the canopy. Typically, forests do not attain these characteristics until they are at least 150 to 200 years old.

[hunter399]

Spotted owls do live in old growth and that's what they prefer and what they do best in. That has never changed that I know of and I don't believe any scientist has ever said that spotted owls habitat is anything other than old growth timber.

That may be true i dont know them being very rare and all,there was on more than one time that we didnt touch this stand or that stand mostly for linx habitat i was told,even though it was in the contract to cut it . And when i did see an owl here and there i coulnd not tell u what species it was.Just telling what i seen in ten plus years.

[hunter399]

The spotted owl was a distraction to keep people from noticing that all the timber jobs were going over seas (just like many other jobs) because the ban on exporting unprocessed logs was lifted by the Reagan administration. And it worked. While everyone was fighting and arguing over the spotted owl, no one noticed that most of the true old growth forests had long since been cut and most logging is done in second and third growth tree farms and most of the wood is sent overseas to be processed.

I agree with alot on your comment most mills these day wont even accept bigger timber here in northeast washington very few will take it anymore.