HOOF ROT MEETING IN VANCOUVER WASHINGTON

[bbarnes]

Vancouver – April 15, 6-8 p.m., Community Room, 1200 Fort Vancouver Way.

[pianoman9701]

I'll be attending. Thanks for the heads up.

[bbarnes]

Reminder meeting is tomorrow be there ask what the plan is for treatment and containment.

[jackmaster]

Reminder meeting is tomorrow be there ask what the plan is for treatment and containment.

if one of you could, would you ask if they plan on using this as a way for them to move wolves into the region? just curious, i see it as a possibility, i doubt they will fess up though

[bbarnes]

The questions that needs to be ask is,how many FTE s are working on the wolf issues in Washington.I bet there is at least 25 to 30 and the problem is they can't manage what they have now.In my opinion there's something bigger going on here.I have heard so many different story's from these people nothing is consistent there's hole in there theory's ect ect.

[pianoman9701]

I will plan on asking about the wolves, JackM. I'm also planning on asking exactly how much research has been devoted to the effect of chemical sprays WITH adjuvents being used in this area.

[jackmaster]

I will plan on asking about the wolves, JackM. I'm also planning on asking exactly how much research has been devoted to the effect of chemical sprays WITH adjuvents being used in this area.

thanks pianno i look forward to your update

[pianoman9701]

I had so much smoke blown up my butt last night that I'm going in for a colon cancer screen this AM.

The dog and pony show put on by Nate Pamplin and the two doctors was not impressive. Apparently, they've looked at every possible cause of hoof rot except for agricultural chemicals.

On their slide show, the pointed to the levels of selenium and copper that were lower in the affected elk than were found in sheep and cattle. They indicated that they had no point of reference for what it should be in healthy elk. When I questioned them, they said they had tested healthy elk all over the state and that there was virtually no difference between healthy elk and affected elk selenium and copper levels. So, it appears that levels of selenium and copper are a non-issue, even though they presented it as a possibility until questioned.

Elk have been showing up with hoof rot almost exclusively on WEYCO land since the late 1980s. 2008 was the year that reports started exploding. 2009 was the first year they performed sampling, or killing elk to do tests. The very next year they did this was 2013! They couldn't explain that the occurrences of affected elk exploded in 2008, they sampled in 2009, and then did no more sampling until 2013. This is odd. Why wouldn't they be doing extensive sampling each year?

On the elk they examined, they performed toxicology studies. They tested for viruses, unusual bacteria, all sorts of stuff. They didn't test for any agricultural chemicals at all. The only thing they did do was studies of cell structure which might indicate the presence of those chemicals. But no testing for the chemicals themselves. There is also no live capture to date so they can observe, change diet, or collar and release for further tracking and study. This seems odd.

I asked who's funded these and got some very vague answers.

BBarnes asked most of the questions regarding specific chemicals and they were like "huh?". They had absolutely no information on sprayed chemicals and their possible affect on these animals. I asked how this could be, that herbicides are the elephant in the room that everyone's ignoring. The elk are exclusively found on WEYCO and adjacent lands and nothing's being done to study what the chemicals are doing. They didn't have a clear answer.

I'm not sure why the WDFW would still feel the need to coddle WEYCO at the expense of our wildlife, especially in light of the fact that they're no longer going to be allowing public use of the St. Helens Tree Farm. When ucwarden says that the WDFW doesn't care about our wildlife as much as our fish and shellfish, everything points to him being correct. 

[bobcat]

I'm not sure why the WDFW would still feel the need to coddle WEYCO at the expense of our wildlife, especially in light of the fact that they're no longer going to be allowing public use of the St. Helens Tree Farm.

This is exactly what I've been thinking! 

And I'm not surprised in the least at their lack of knowledge in regards to the chemicals.

It's almost like they've been told not to do anything to upset the timber industry. Yes, kind of like how they won't touch the Yakama Indians. 

Thanks for the report. I will be attending the meeting in Chehalis. Not sure why, but I guess I also want to see how clueless they are.


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[Blacktail Sniper]

When is the meeting in Lewis Co happening?

[bobcat]

When is the meeting in Lewis Co happening?

Tonight, 6:00 - 8:00

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/mar2514a/

And unfortunately, I just found out I can't go. My daughter has a softball game tonight.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Thanks. 

[bowbuild]

Being a applicator by trade....my STRONG suggestion is to bring with you the MSDS AND LABELS of the herbicides in question. Veterinarians are NOT educated in herbicides and pesticides. I will give you a example......Frontline for fleas....chemical Fripronil.....at the vet it is a medicine. I use a termicide called Termidor....guess what...Fripronil.... now in my truck it is a poison to most peoples thinking. Now here is where it gets ironic.....from memory, I believe frontline is 9.8% fripronil you apply that directly to your pet full strength, and some come with a "plus" on the label....that is a additional chemical called a insect growth regulator. Now my bottle of Termidor is 9.1% Fripronil and by label and law I dilute that to .08% .1% for ants and termites. Your animals are glowing in compared to what I apply!

I say all the above because VETS are continually telling potential customers that my chemicals are dangerous......and yet they hand out their "medicines" without a thought! Vets don't know *censored* about chemicals....so unless you bring them the labels you are talking Greek to them! Heads up!

Bowbuild

[JLS]

Before everyone gets out their pitchforks and anti-chemical banners, ask yourself this question again.  Why doesn't hoof rot show up in other areas of private timberlands, i.e. Skagit Valley, North Bend, NE Washington, Northern Idaho, Coastal Oregon?

[bobcat]

Before everyone gets out their pitchforks and anti-chemical banners, ask yourself this question again.  Why doesn't hoof rot show up in other areas of private timberlands, i.e. Skagit Valley, North Bend, NE Washington, Northern Idaho, Coastal Oregon?

I don't know. That's what I want the experts to study and determine the answer to that, and then tell me why hoof rot in elk is only in SW Washington.

Could it have something to do with the eruption of Mt St Helens, and then the massive area that was replanted all at once? And is the spraying of chemicals on a large scale a part of the puzzle?

Well I don't know, but I'm not a chemist or a biologist. Why don't they ban the spraying of timberlands for ten years and see if the health of the elk in the area improves. My guess is that it will.

I'd also guess that we would see a very large increase in deer, grouse, and other wildlife.