One good reason Challenge

[NOCK NOCK]

I would like to hear 1 good, logically sound, factual reason why street legal ATV's/UTV's should not be allowed to ride on forest service roads that are legally open to other motor vehicles.

There are 2-3 answers that always come up that IMO do not hold water.

   1. They do a lot of resource damage.
Every act that man does in the forest causes resource damage.
Pedestrian/Bicycle traffic: Tramples flora & fauna, creates new trails, etc.
Horses/Livestock: tear up trail & fauna, cut switchbacks, unchecked feed brings unwanted weeds, landmines
Motorcycles: Rut up roads/trails, hit the berms on banks(erosion)cut switchbacks on trails, etc.
Trucks/Autos: Tear up roads, make new roads, flatten small trees, make short cuts,.....
Snowmobiles: Trees are traction, bushes too.
We all do damage, so why do all these users get basically wide open use of the system..except ATV's?

   2. ATV's always going into/around closed roads/areas/gates.
And motorcycles never do this? They are not banned from the forest. In fact, most roads that are gated, bermed, or boulderd closed, are not even possible to get an ATV around but could easily be done with a motorcycle.

   3. Safety issue.
In a head on, or other type of collision on a FS road, ATV's are just as/if not more safe than a motorcycle or mountain bike. UTV's are far more safer, having full cage certified roll bars(does your P/U have a roll cage?

I use all of the above modes of transportation, and am fed up with all of the negativity aimed towards ATV's. Because it's not your way, you feel that we should not be able to enjoy OUR forest how we want to?
What if archery hunters took that view against modern firearms?
Some jackwagons mass murder with guns, Are you prepared to give yours up?
WE outdoorsman need to all stick together for the good of ALL, or one by one we will all lose our oppurtunitys,

So ya I'm calling you out (Esp. you Washelk )
Give me 1 GOOD reason.

[Band]

As a person who enjoys riding my ATV slowly and responsibly on gravel roads in the mountains it is very frustrating to me that due to regulations I pretty much have to just garage the thing because I can't ride it hardly anywhere.  I guarantee you that my type of riding does the same amount of "damage" to the road as any typical truck.  And I don't take it off road.  Very frustrating indeed.

[Buzz2401]

The only reason I can think of is that ATV's are way to easy to go over the speed limit on the gravel roads.  It can be hard to keep at a resonable speed. There is a considerable risk of death if you hit a truck on an ATV.

[NOCK NOCK]

The only reason I can think of is that ATV's are way to easy to go over the speed limit on the gravel roads.  It can be hard to keep at a resonable speed. There is a considerable risk of death if you hit a truck on an ATV.

And this is different from??____________??   motorcycle, mtn. bike, etc.  Read #3 again

[Halo]

It's getting pretty hard to come up with one good reason why to spend a dime in this state buying or renewing your ORV tabs, or for a Discovery Pass for that matter. I find my recreational dollars leaving this state more all the time. States like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming don't seem to mind my recreational dollars. They don't seem to have a problem with my ATV, less restrictive laws in general, and way better hunting. In those states and many others common sense is not only allowed but encouraged and expected and not legislated away in an attempt to protect us from ourselves while emptying our pockets like in this state. If I didn't have max points going for sheep & moose and 16 points for elk I would never buy another hunting or fishing license in this state either.

[bowhunterwa87]

Lol i love this guys posts.   

[Halo]

 Where is the funding for additional leo's and personnel going to come from to educate the public?

 Exactly my point, let the state get the money from the granola eating tree huggers and the tribes, that's who they want to cater to. I like to vote with my dollars and support what I want to support, any more I can't feel good about spending my recreational dollars here. If I cant be part of the solution at least I can try to avoid monetarily supporting the problem.

[washelkhunter]

Well Nyuck Nyuck, ATV's/UTV's are not allowed on the roads because the legislature of WA. St. has decided in their wisdom, and rightly so, that they are not "street legal" and thus cannot be legally licensed to operate on the publics roadways. Which also means the owners cannot purchase the necessary and req'd liability insurance to cover the costs of accidents etc. However it appears that positive change is coming for the ATV community in this regard. Personally I have no issue with them being legally licensed and properly insured to operate on the roads, nor do I take issue with the NFS's to ban and/or restrict the use of them on their roads and trails in the interests of resource and public protection. My arguement has always been with the jackwagons who even tho operation of their rides at all was illegal still manage to showup and commit illegal acts such as riding down closed roads, trails, around barriers and cross country, but still manage to possess the arrogant stupidity that doing so is somehow their right. And then they're righteously indignant after i've bashed in the crankcase of their ride after coming across it deep in forbidden territory! Sheesh, some people eh?    Also the arguement for the use of atv's shouldnt be predicated on the use or misuse of other forms of transport. Dont compare apples to oranges. Im cool with them being legally operated but what I would like to see in place is a say $10,000 fine and confiscation for each infraction of illegal use and that should go for the others as well. Challenge met.

[bobcat]

I think they should be legal on Forest service roads. Jeeps, pickups, and cars are allowed, why not ATV's?

I do understand the reasoning behind keeping them out of the National Forests though. It's because many people can't or won't follow rules.

ATV's can easily get around gates and past road blockages. Most people won't ride their ATV up a main road and park it on the side of the road where they can begin hiking on a trail or closed road. Instead they simply continue on the ATV.

This is where violators need to receive an extremely high penalty, like washelkhunter mentioned. If someone is caught on a closed road or trail, confiscate the ATV. Eventually word will get out and people might learn that they they need to follow the rules.


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[Halo]

Im cool with them being legally operated but what I would like to see in place is a say $10,000 fine and confiscation for each infraction of illegal use and that should go for the others as well. Challenge met.

I wish it were that easy. I'm not sure I like the confiscation thing, you end up with Joe tax paying citizen inadvertently being in the wrong area and it costs him his ten thousand dollar ATV while Joe derelict tearing up the wilderness on his mufflerless $500 beater ATV is only out his $500 oil leaking brakeless unsafe junk pile. Taking his ATV won't make him any smarter or less of a menace either, he'll either get another junker or just use his junker pickup to rip out the gate and drive in to continue being a menace. And I can't see it working that well with other user groups, load up that horse, they took it off the road. As for the $10,000 dollar fine you know Joe derelict will not pay any of it, what can LE do, issue a warrant? We already kick the tweekers loose from jail when caught for residential burglary etc. after a day or two behind bars. Most property crime is catch & release, I guess we could kick a few of those derelicts loose even earlier to make room for the ATV jackwagons. No easy answers. I think it works better when more areas are open to ATV's so they can police their own. I know I have seen a few "shoolings" in the woods about responsible ATV use and the lack of it getting areas shut down. The area gets shut down and then there is no one there with skin in the game to bother the jackwagons except the occasional hiker or hunter on foot who might call them in creating a 1 in 100 chance of them being caught and we are back to those LE dilemma's again. I wish there were easy answers.

[jrebel]

I don't have a reason....

I believe they should be legal anywhere any other motorized vehicle is legal.  I also believe that if they are found doing something illegal they should be heavily fined (like other users).  If they are found off the recognized trail / roads they should loose their rigs and receive a hefty fine.  If word gets out the fines and penalties are tough...people will think twice before being stupid.   

[bobcat]

How about a more reasonable fine then- say $1,000, no exceptions.

We also need substantial fines for those who think forest service roads make a good race track.

[jrebel]

How about a more reasonable fine then- say $1,000, no exceptions.

We also need substantial fines for those who think forest service roads make a good race track.

Are you saying $1000 is to much or to little? 

I think if you are caught doing something stupid $1000 fines would make you think twice....and even better would be 1K to 5K and loose your ride....obviously depending on the infraction. 

[bobcat]

I was responding to Halo, he didn't like the confiscation idea. So I was thinking maybe just a stiff fine would be more fair.


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[Halo]

How about a more reasonable fine then- say $1,000, no exceptions.

We also need substantial fines for those who think forest service roads make a good race track.

Maybe confiscate until the fine is paid. That would be fair and create a little leverage to get derelicts to pay the fine I guess. Might not make them smarter or more responsible but at least it would help for a while. I agree on the forest service race track thing.