Initiatives 594 and 591

[luvmystang67]

One place I get caught up though... For a minor to hunt alone, I believe the minimum age is 14 or at least it used to be. 

There is no minimum hunting age in Washington state. As long as you have passed hunter education and are otherwise legal, you can hunt at any age, alone or accompanied.

Thanks for the clarification.  Given that the age to hunt alone is under 18, this will all but ensure that there will be no gun hunting alone/unaccompanied by anyone under the age of 18, at least the way I read it.

[bobcat]

It sounds like under this law if you were in possession of a gun that wasn't yours, for whatever reason, you would simply have to tell the authorities that it IS your gun, if questioned. How could they prove it was not?

My dad gives me guns all the time, either to clean, install a scope, or sight in. If asked, I would lie. Yes, lie, and say the gun is mine. It's really nobody's business anyway.

My feeling is the anti's bit off more than they can chew with this one. It's simply too extreme. No reasonable person will vote for it.

[Bob33]

One place I get caught up though... For a minor to hunt alone, I believe the minimum age is 14 or at least it used to be. 

There is no minimum hunting age in Washington state. As long as you have passed hunter education and are otherwise legal, you can hunt at any age, alone or accompanied.

Thanks for the clarification.  Given that the age to hunt alone is under 18, this will all but ensure that there will be no gun hunting alone/unaccompanied by anyone under the age of 18, at least the way I read it.

Why wouldn't the second "or" allow it?

or (v) while hunting if the hunting is legal in all places where the person to whom the firearm is transferred possesses the firearm and the person to whom the firearm is transferred has completed all training and holds all licenses or permits required for such hunting, provided that any temporary transfer allowed by this subsection is permitted only if the person to whom the firearm is transferred is not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law.

[Curly]

It sounds like under this law if you were in possession of a gun that wasn't yours, for whatever reason, you would simply have to tell the authorities that it IS your gun, if questioned. How could they prove it was not?

My dad gives me guns all the time, either to clean, install a scope, or sight in. If asked, I would lie. Yes, lie, and say the gun is mine. It's really nobody's business anyway.

My feeling is the anti's bit off more than they can chew with this one. It's simply too extreme. No reasonable person will vote for it.

Problem is that there are a lot of unreasonable people that will be voting.  No reasonable person should have voted for Obama or Inslee.......but here we sit with them. 

[bobcat]

Well, reasonable or not, there are a LOT of people who own guns. Hunters are a very small minority, but gun owners are not. I would think that almost everyone who owns a gun or knows someone who owns a gun, would be smart enough to vote against any new restrictions on the transfer of guns from one person to another.

[luvmystang67]

One place I get caught up though... For a minor to hunt alone, I believe the minimum age is 14 or at least it used to be. 

There is no minimum hunting age in Washington state. As long as you have passed hunter education and are otherwise legal, you can hunt at any age, alone or accompanied.

Thanks for the clarification.  Given that the age to hunt alone is under 18, this will all but ensure that there will be no gun hunting alone/unaccompanied by anyone under the age of 18, at least the way I read it.

Why wouldn't the second "or" allow it?

or (v) while hunting if the hunting is legal in all places where the person to whom the firearm is transferred possesses the firearm and the person to whom the firearm is transferred has completed all training and holds all licenses or permits required for such hunting, provided that any temporary transfer allowed by this subsection is permitted only if the person to whom the firearm is transferred is not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law.

Well, reading the one before it pertaining to minors, it specifically mentions hunting.  I would think a minor who was hunting with a borrowed gun would fall into exemption (iv) and not exemption (v), however if they are hunting then I suppose that could be one of the arguments (somewhat contradictory).  Basically this is an area of interpretation left open.  I would say the more specific law would apply when a person falls into that category.  Either way, if your kid gets caught with a gun hunting under 18, who wants to pay to fight it in court...?

The second part of this, about hunting season... I think this would prohibit loaning a gun to a friend for the fall, prior to the season opening (so they could get comfortable with the gun and sight it in).  Again, unless they're "coyote hunting" or you just lie.

[Bob33]

Well, reasonable or not, there are a LOT of people who own guns. Hunters are a very small minority, but gun owners are not. I would think that almost everyone who owns a gun or knows someone who owns a gun, would be smart enough to vote against any new restrictions on the transfer of guns from one person to another.

I hope you are right but fear it will pass. The pro 594 ads don't mention "transfers"; only the sale of guns to thugs who should have undergone a background check to prevent tragedies from happening.

Sadly, there are too many well meaning voters who are simply ignorant of what their vote may mean.

[luvmystang67]

Well, reasonable or not, there are a LOT of people who own guns. Hunters are a very small minority, but gun owners are not. I would think that almost everyone who owns a gun or knows someone who owns a gun, would be smart enough to vote against any new restrictions on the transfer of guns from one person to another.

You must not have visited King county in a while.  If the democrat ads say vote for it, they will.  Honestly, I'm already planning on it being law.  Maybe it is because I'm younger and know how the city vibe goes.

If you know any gun owners that are generally careless about voting, PLEASE encourage them to vote on this.  We need everyone who had an opinion against this to get their vote in.  Otherwise, I think its basically as good as law.

[bobcat]

It's simply wishful thinking on my part. I have no idea if it will pass or not. I just hope that most people are smart enough to actually read and research the true repercussions of this instead of only going by what the ad on TV says.

[bradslam]

I know this will upset a bunch of people, but this is why I don't agree with the mentality of many gun rights advocates who won't budge an inch on reasonable controls.  If you have your head in the sand and are not at the table working on productive solutions to the problems that exist, someone else will be coming up with the solutions and you may not like the result.

[Hi-Liter]

Need to get some more money in ads on TV. All you see is the negative campaigns on TV.

Plus Paul Allen, Nick Haunhauer and your good buddy that owns the Hawks just donated some serious money to get this initiative to pass.

I see in some other forums people are voting "NO" on both. Too bad that more cannot be done to educated people about the initiative.

[Bob33]

It's simply wishful thinking on my part. I have no idea if it will pass or not. I just hope that most people are smart enough to actually read and research the true repercussions of this instead of only going by what the ad on TV says.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/politics/2014/08/18/14029370/

The Elway Poll found that 70 percent of people were inclined to vote for Initiative 594. The same poll showed that 46 percent of people were inclined to vote for a competing measure, Initiative 591, which would prevent Washington state from adopting background-check laws stricter than the national standard.

Thirty-two percent of respondents said they were inclined to vote for both initiatives in November.

[woodswalker]

I am going to vote no on i-594, but to the OP, you really should fact-check before posting. The following is from the full text of the initiative which I am including a link to as well.

"Background checks would not be required for gifts between immediate family members or for antiques."

It also says nothing about having to do background check to let someone handle your firearm. It does state "loans" are not exempt though, so I suppose it could be interpreted that loaning a gun to a family member would not be exempt, but that gifting it would? 

All around a worthless and poorly written initiative, but I think we can fight it better with the truth than we can with lies. 

http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/FinalText_483.pdf

Its not poorly written, its written EXACTLY AS THE PROVIDERS WANT IT...its GOAL is to CRIMINALIZE GUNOWNERS.  A CAREFUL READING yeilds that its does EXACTLY AS INDICATED...that Letting someone handle your firearm is defined as a TRANSFER in the bill.  Makes a pair of felons at a time.

COME ON FOLKS WAKE THE HELL UP.  See that gun rights are under HARD attack...the rich Libs (Hanauer, Bloomers, Gates etc) are POURING money into this in CUBIC loads.

[woodswalker]

I know this will upset a bunch of people, but this is why I don't agree with the mentality of many gun rights advocates who won't budge an inch on reasonable controls.  If you have your head in the sand and are not at the table working on productive solutions to the problems that exist, someone else will be coming up with the solutions and you may not like the result.

Brad, Brad, Brad....do you NOT READ HISTORY!??  Nor LEARN from it???

"Reasonable" is just another word in the Anti's lexicon for "Some for me and none for you".

Do you REALLY want to give away your RIGHTS in penny packets?

COME ON FOLKS>>>WAKE THE HELL UP---Divide and conquer?  heard of that? 

Stop quibbling about degrees and get with the program....if we dont hang together...we most certainly will hang separately...one at a time.

[huntrights]

I-591 is PRO-Gun

I-594 is ANTI-Gun


Please get the word out to:

VOTE YES on I-591 (The PRO-Gun Initiative)

VOTE NO on I-594 (The ANTI-Gun Initiative)


It's the grassroots effort that will defeat I-594.  If ALL hunters and gun owners are not on board, we will have several unnecessary, menacing, overbearing, GUN-CONTROL laws and regulations shoved into our lives that take away the rights and freedoms of law-abiding citizens and doesn't do anything to stop crime or criminals.  I-594 is GUN-CONTROL that will burden only law-abiding citizens.

Please review the attachments (PDF files below)