Shot Size!?

[aorams]

Hi Forum,

I just picked up my first shotgun!  It is a Remington 870 Express 20 gauge with a 3" chamber(also shoots 2.75" shells).  I plan to frequently hunt grouse, hunt quail near ellensburg with a little less frequency and hopefully stumble upon the occasional pheasant.  I'm wondering if one load will "do it all" in the name of simplicity.  Thanks for your help!

[bowhunterwa87]

Lead 6 shot 2 3/4 should be fine.

[bobcat]

Number 6 shot is good for grouse. For blue grouse and longer shots at ruffed grouse I'd want the 1 ounce loads minimum. You could even go with 3 inch shells and number 6 shot if you're focusing on blue grouse.

Those heavier loads aren't needed for quail. I'd prefer 7/8 ounce with number 8 shot. If your shotgun has choke tubes use the most open choke for quail as shots will be close. For grouse modified is good.

The nice thing about shotguns is they're very versatile simply by changing loads, and chokes if your gun has choke tubes. I would recommend not trying to do it all with only one load.

[Mfowl]

If you plan to hunt the pheasant release sites in Eburg or anywhere near marsh/wetlands you should think about steel/nontoxic shot. Steel is reasonably priced but its hard to find in smaller than 4 shot. Nontoxic shot is much more pricey but its more readily available in upland shot size like 6 or smaller.

[270Shooter]

Steel 4's are great for pheasants and grouse, and they kill quail like lightning.

[RadSav]

20 gauge is all we shoot around here.  We used to buy this for that and that for this, but these days I buy cases of only two rounds; 

For quail, chucker/huns, grouse and pheasant (where we can use lead) we use 2.75" Kent Ultimate Fastlead #7.5 or #6.  I've busted some pheasant at crazy distances with the stuff.  No need for larger shot unless hunting waterfowl.

For areas where we need non-tox shot we run 3" #7.5 or #6 Heavyshot.    Why 3" here?  Well, because if I'm going to spend that much money, why not?

Deciding between 7.5 and 6 depends on what is on sale and what is available these days in case quantities.  I haven't noticed any difference in effectiveness between the two.  I lost a lot of quail using #8, but I can't remember the last time I lost a chuckar or pheasant with #7.5.  Though we do blow apart fewer birds using the #6.

If you hunt a lot of grouse and want to keep costs down Wal-Mart always has a fall special on some Federal light target/field loads in #7.5 and that works great for grouse.  Not the speed or shot volume I like for all other upland birds though.

Both of those rounds pattern well enough I've begun using the wider chokes on all of them.  I run improved on my guns and the wife used skeet in hers.  When we used the cheap Federal Heavy Game lead loads the wife would use improved and I would use modified.  But when we switched to the harder shot we just blew up too much meat and made the switch to the lesser chokes.

[huntingfool7]

If you're hunting quail and pheasant, it's pretty likely that you'll be required to use steel.  I personally like #5's.
For shooting grouse, anything that works for pheasant or quail will roll grouse.

[aorams]

Thanks everyone!  I appreciate the info!

[Tiger1358]

Hi Forum,

I just picked up my first shotgun!  It is a Remington 870 Express 20 gauge with a 3" chamber(also shoots 2.75" shells).  I plan to frequently hunt grouse, hunt quail near ellensburg with a little less frequency and hopefully stumble upon the occasional pheasant.  I'm wondering if one load will "do it all" in the name of simplicity.  Thanks for your help!

# 6 lead shot for grouse, 7 1/2 for quail . For pheasants use #4-5 lead shot or #3-4 steel shot. Some people might think that #3 steel is too much ,but it works really good. For  50+ yards  use # 2 steel for pheasants. Good luck.

[jackson7]

If just going with one shot size I prefer 6.
personally I like 5 and 6 on pheasant. 6 on grouse, chukar and 71/2 on quail and Huns.

[Fishnfowler]

My recommendation is for 7-1/2 for everything as a do-all shell.  I don't shoot steel so can't speak to that.  If I am chasing phez specifically, I go with #5 or 6, but that is so rare, and they are generally incidental game for me, that most of mine are taken with smaller shot. 

Only 3 months to go until Dove season. 

[aorams]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

[jackson7]

If you are going for ducks. Sure you could use on pheasant. however not optimal for others.

[AspenBud]

Number 6 shot is good for grouse. For blue grouse and longer shots at ruffed grouse I'd want the 1 ounce loads minimum. You could even go with 3 inch shells and number 6 shot if you're focusing on blue grouse.

Those heavier loads aren't needed for quail. I'd prefer 7/8 ounce with number 8 shot. If your shotgun has choke tubes use the most open choke for quail as shots will be close. For grouse modified is good.

The nice thing about shotguns is they're very versatile simply by changing loads, and chokes if your gun has choke tubes. I would recommend not trying to do it all with only one load.

 

Almost every box of shells that I use for bird hunting is #6. Game loads are cheap and effective for grouse and heavy shot for release site birds works fine for that purpose.

[merkelman]

My recommendation is for 7-1/2 for everything as a do-all shell.  I don't shoot steel so can't speak to that.  If I am chasing phez specifically, I go with #5 or 6, but that is so rare, and they are generally incidental game for me, that most of mine are taken with smaller shot. 

Only 3 months to go until Dove season.

or Grouse season!

[floatinghat]

My recommendation is for 7-1/2 for everything as a do-all shell.  I don't shoot steel so can't speak to that.  If I am chasing phez specifically, I go with #5 or 6, but that is so rare, and they are generally incidental game for me, that most of mine are taken with smaller shot. 

Only 3 months to go until Dove season.

Can't say it any better except 2 1/2 shells.

[Bigshooter]

1oz of 6 shot with max dram. 

[270Shooter]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

those will work for everything except for big geese unless they are really close. They are a little big for quail, just let them get out a little ways before shooting and shoot an open choke because steel patterns tighter than lead.

[Tiger1358]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

those will work for everything except for big geese unless they are really close. They are a little big for quail, just let them get out a little ways before shooting and shoot an open choke because steel patterns tighter than lead.

Steel patterns tighter than lead??? That's just impossible, lead is always better than steel .The only down side of lead is negative environmental impact . Lead always flies further and patterns tighter.

[Tiger1358]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

  Great choice...Might be a lil too much for quail but they work very well for pheasants and grouse. For waterfowl you can get BBB - #2 from Cabela's for $149.99 . Kent makes good quality ammo.

[WSU]

I guess I'll buck the trend.  I like lead 6's for a do all load but buy different shot for what I'm doing.  Late season wild roosters get lead 5's or 4's.  Hunting for huns or quail I use 7.5.  Waterfowl or release site birds get something totally different, such as steel 4's or 2's. 

[Curly]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

those will work for everything except for big geese unless they are really close. They are a little big for quail, just let them get out a little ways before shooting and shoot an open choke because steel patterns tighter than lead.

Steel patterns tighter than lead??? That's just impossible, lead is always better than steel .The only down side of lead is negative environmental impact . Lead always flies further and patterns tighter.

Nope.  Steel should produce a tighter pattern.  Try patterning some if you don't believe it. 

[Tiger1358]

I'm going to go with non-toxic, and was quickly priced out of the Hevi-Shot.  What do you guys think about this stuff?

http://www.nwarmory.com/p-12733-kent-k203st244-3in-78-stl-2510.aspx

those will work for everything except for big geese unless they are really close. They are a little big for quail, just let them get out a little ways before shooting and shoot an open choke because steel patterns tighter than lead.

Steel patterns tighter than lead??? That's just impossible, lead is always better than steel .The only down side of lead is negative environmental impact . Lead always flies further and patterns tighter.

Nope.  Steel should produce a tighter pattern.  Try patterning some if you don't believe it.

Last time I tried that  2 weeks ago. I was shooting Winchester # 6 steel vs Federal # 6 lead. Lead pattern was a lot better. Hunters all over the world prefer lead over steel.


 

[Curly]

I prefer lead over steel too, but not because lead has a tighter pattern.  Lead is better because it is heavier and you can use smaller size shot so you can get more pellets on target. 

But the fact still remains that in general, steel will produce tighter patterns.  You ever see copper plated lead shot?  The reason they plate them is so that the pattern is tighter; it is tighter because the shot is harder and doesn't get deformed while traveling out your barrel, thus providing a tighter pattern.

I've never used steel shot as small as 6's so maybe with the smaller size shot it isn't as a big a difference?  I just think that usually steel will give a tighter pattern.  I know that back in the late 80's when we first were required to hunt with steel, my 30" full choke was too tight and I had to buy a new barell and the improved cylinder choke with #2 steel gave me full choke patterns.

[huntingfool7]

[/quote]

Last time I tried that  2 weeks ago. I was shooting Winchester # 6 steel vs Federal # 6 lead. Lead pattern was a lot better. Hunters all over the world prefer lead over steel.

[/quote]
Patterning cheap promo ammo like your Winchester sixes is a waste of time.  Don't take my word for it.  Cut one of those things open, put it on a plate and see how many of those pellets won't roll.
Good consistent patterns come from good, round, HARD shot.  That doesn't change whether you're flinging steel or lead. 

[270Shooter]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

[singleshot12]

Hi Forum,

I just picked up my first shotgun!  It is a Remington 870 Express 20 gauge with a 3" chamber(also shoots 2.75" shells).  I plan to frequently hunt grouse, hunt quail near ellensburg with a little less frequency and hopefully stumble upon the occasional pheasant.  I'm wondering if one load will "do it all" in the name of simplicity.  Thanks for your help!

Since you're mainly focusing on quail I would stick to a 7 1/2 size premium upland load(leadcopper coated) And since you have a pump shogun wouldn't hurt to back up the 7 1/2's with 6's.

[singleshot12]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

Problem is most "wild phez" jump at 50+ yards. Lead or heavy shot is the only thing capable to put the hurt at that range.

Steel shot is perfect for box chickens on the other hand

[Tiger1358]

I prefer lead over steel too, but not because lead has a tighter pattern.  Lead is better because it is heavier and you can use smaller size shot so you can get more pellets on target. 

But the fact still remains that in general, steel will produce tighter patterns.  You ever see copper plated lead shot?  The reason they plate them is so that the pattern is tighter; it is tighter because the shot is harder and doesn't get deformed while traveling out your barrel, thus providing a tighter pattern.

I've never used steel shot as small as 6's so maybe with the smaller size shot it isn't as a big a difference?  I just think that usually steel will give a tighter pattern.  I know that back in the late 80's when we first were required to hunt with steel, my 30" full choke was too tight and I had to buy a new barell and the improved cylinder choke with #2 steel gave me full choke patterns.

Probably you're right about the difference in size. I've never patterned lead bigger than #4 in US, because they don't make them here...In Europe I was using lead for all kinds of hunting, non toxic wasn't required for waterfowl and upland game. I remember how my shotgun was patterning in Europe and when I tried steel pellets first time in US , I noticed a big difference. Maybe my reloads in Europe were better than these manufactured ammo..IDK..However, when I was patterning I was always getting better result with lead. By the way, I don't know if you know how to make shotgun pellets at home, but if you do ,make those pellets out of lead plates from car batteries. They're harder than regular lead and they don't get deformed as much as regular lead. You would probably get good results with those pellets.

[Tiger1358]

Last time I tried that  2 weeks ago. I was shooting Winchester # 6 steel vs Federal # 6 lead. Lead pattern was a lot better. Hunters all over the world prefer lead over steel.

[/quote]
Patterning cheap promo ammo like your Winchester sixes is a waste of time.  Don't take my word for it.  Cut one of those things open, put it on a plate and see how many of those pellets won't roll.
Good consistent patterns come from good, round, HARD shot.  That doesn't change whether you're flinging steel or lead.
[/quote]

I opened one of them like a year ago, it was alright. Then one of friends gave me some Winchester #5 that didn't fit his shotgun, I decided to open that one too,it was copper plated and looked good too. And you're right that Winchester is really cheap and their ammo is not always good.

[270Shooter]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

Problem is most "wild phez" jump at 50+ yards. Lead or heavy shot is the only thing capable to put the hurt at that range.

Steel shot is perfect for box chickens on the other hand

haha well don't tell that to the wild Yakama Rez birds I've killed with steel I think they'd beg to differ.

[singleshot12]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

Problem is most "wild phez" jump at 50+ yards. Lead or heavy shot is the only thing capable to put the hurt at that range.

Steel shot is perfect for box chickens on the other hand

haha well don't tell that to the wild Yakama Rez birds I've killed with steel I think they'd beg to differ.

haha at 50 plus yards wild birds

[270Shooter]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

Problem is most "wild phez" jump at 50+ yards. Lead or heavy shot is the only thing capable to put the hurt at that range.

Steel shot is perfect for box chickens on the other hand

haha well don't tell that to the wild Yakama Rez birds I've killed with steel I think they'd beg to differ.

haha at 50 plus yards wild birds

well yeah I'd say I've killed a few roosters around the 50 yard mark with steel shot, but I really don't hunt pheasants all that much, but I can tell you I've killed a good many ducks that far or farther and I'd say a big mallard is every bit as tough as a rooster. Now if I was to hunt late season pheasants with no snow on the ground and that's the only bird I'm expecting, then yes a imp mod or full choke with lead or heavy shot would be more ideal.

[wildweeds]

25% of the pattern  at any yardage is constant no matter what the choke constriction,when your on em your on em.

[singleshot12]

Steel patterns much tighter than lead because it is harder and the pellets don't get deformed as they travel down the barrel and through the choke. For this reason I prefer steel for almost all hunting. And yes I do believe that steel 3's and 4's kill pheasants more effectively than lead 6's because steel shells are generally faster and will pattern tighter than lead. The only downside to steel is that it is lighter than lead but it's really not as big of a difference as everyone thinks. The only thing I'll use lead for is turkeys, clays, and if I am quail hunting and not expecting any roosters.

Problem is most "wild phez" jump at 50+ yards. Lead or heavy shot is the only thing capable to put the hurt at that range.

Steel shot is perfect for box chickens on the other hand

haha well don't tell that to the wild Yakama Rez birds I've killed with steel I think they'd beg to differ.

haha at 50 plus yards wild birds

well yeah I'd say I've killed a few roosters around the 50 yard mark with steel shot, but I really don't hunt pheasants all that much, but I can tell you I've killed a good many ducks that far or farther and I'd say a big mallard is every bit as tough as a rooster. Now if I was to hunt late season pheasants with no snow on the ground and that's the only bird I'm expecting, then yes a imp mod or full choke with lead or heavy shot would be more ideal.

50+ yard mark with steel on wild birds ya using nitro-mag 2's or bb's and getting lucky with a pellet to the head or wing tip?

My experiance is..and I've had years of both lead and steel is - -  Steelshot is only consistantely lethal at the 25-35 yard mark reguardless of shot size. Sure you can kill a bird to smitherings at less yardage but who wants to do that?

Lead is good for a much wider range from 10 yards all the way to 80.

Not sure how anyone can ever justify steel being as versitile and or equal and lethal as lead is

[WSU]

Lead 4 or 5 will consistently fold roosters at 50.  Steel won't.

[Curly]

Lead 4 or 5 will consistently fold roosters at 50.  Steel won't.

Yup.

And ducks too.  Boy, I miss those old days of duck hunting with my 30" full choke and 1.5 oz of 5's.   

[WSU]

I had an old wingmaster with a 28 inch fixed full barrel during college in Pullman.  I'd buy 1 1/4 lead 5's at tri-state (don't recall the brand but around $5 box).  That stuff was deadly!