Of Roosevelt Elk, Bacteria, Hooves and Herbicides

[idahohuntr]

If WDFW was really with it they would have had answers years ago.  I just dont trust or believe them.  More inclined to believe the spraying argument, including Dr. Mora. Heck they wouldnt even accept money from RMEF to help study elk.  Idahohntr it seems you may have the blinders on?  Wasnt the argument that chemical banned in most of civilized countries affects immune systems and naturally occurring lepto bacteria capitalizes on this auto=imune weakness?  Seems plausible so why not study it?   I have family who have watched this disease progress from its origin area since early 90s.  Most all of them say its the spraying.  They dont buy the "safe"meat wdfw claims.   Isnt some fish loaded with high mercury?  But its safe too?  Doesnt mercury stay in system and accumulate?  Just saying- I dont trust em and like to research a little and error on side of safety.

WDFW has accepted funding from RMEF to study the issue.  RMEF has a member who is on their advisory group.  While it may seem "plausible"...wdfw does not have unlimited resources...they need to stick with the probably and most likely causes...not the..."well, theoretically it is possible" causes.  The public has every right to demand answers and action...but we can't do science by mob mentality and expect to get anywhere. 

[Mudman]

Yes they finally did after public pressure but the money has been offered for several years and declined.  I have corresponded by email with the RMEF rep. on this issue years past.  Also Lepto and trep bacteria are very closely related of the same strain of spiro bacterium.  Did they tell you this in your wdfw meetings?  Not trying to be a jerk just wondering how much info they shared.

[jongosch]

This is interesting.  Three weeks later, WDFW still has not posted the minutes to their most recent Elk Hoof Disease Public Working Group meeting on May 21st in Kelso.  Let me help.  The important stuff is right here:

http://jongosch.com/citizens-express-profound-distrust-of-fish-and-wildlife-officials-herbicide-spraying-and-safety-of-elk-meat/

[bbarnes]

The help the RMEF rep that's on the hoof rot committee added was,do we get extra points for a trophy elk hunt, if we kill a hoof rotted elk.OMG this is what your talking about, adding to the group of experts.

[idahohuntr]

Yes they finally did after public pressure but the money has been offered for several years and declined.  I have corresponded by email with the RMEF rep. on this issue years past.  Also Lepto and trep bacteria are very closely related of the same strain of spiro bacterium.  Did they tell you this in your wdfw meetings?  Not trying to be a jerk just wondering how much info they shared.

Yes, that sounds correct.  They pretty much presented what they did at the last public hoof rot meeting in June I believe?? 

[Mudman]

This is interesting.  Three weeks later, WDFW still has not posted the minutes to their most recent Elk Hoof Disease Public Working Group meeting on May 21st in Kelso.  Let me help.  The important stuff is right here:

http://jongosch.com/citizens-express-profound-distrust-of-fish-and-wildlife-officials-herbicide-spraying-and-safety-of-elk-meat/

Very good read, thanks.

[bearpaw]

AGAIN SHOW SOME OF YOUR RESEARCH just go buy a bottle of round up and read the precautions.Then mix 5 of similar toxins together wash your hands in it and then eat a sandwich.Post your reactions from the nearest hospital if you survive.

Ok...this is exactly the kind of stupidity that is not helpful in solving the hoof rot issue.  Your point is that if I won't eat roundup then herbicides must cause hoof rot?  Do you realize how stupid that comes across? 

I've said multiple times toxins in the environment are not good.  Maybe there are too many herbicides...that does not mean it is the cause of hoof rot.

Can you please try to carry on a civil conversation, you are testing the waters with some of your remarks, thanks!

[Mudman]

The help the RMEF rep that's on the hoof rot committee added was,do we get extra points for a trophy elk hunt, if we kill a hoof rotted elk.OMG this is what your talking about, adding to the group of experts.

Not the same man.  I refer to Regional Rep.

[Special T]

What is Unique about the SW region in the timber?Are they spraying more? Is there a higher concentration of a couple of big land owners? We need to know why this seems so isolated in comparison to other areas.

[jongosch]

My newest article published today - a full report on the TAG meeting last week in Vancouver.

WDFW's Treponema Theory Dismantled by Technical Advisory Group, 'Hoof Rot' Continues to Decimate Elk Herds
New Research Shows Herbicides Are Far More Toxic Than Previously Thought

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government, without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both.”
--James Madison

For months, WDFW officials have been claiming the mysterious elk hoof disease ravaging the herds of southwest Washington is likely caused by treponema bacteria.  At a public meeting in Longview on March 27, WDFW Director Phil Anderson told the nearly 300 citizens in attendance that regarding treponema, “We’ve got some pretty strong evidence and we’ll figure out whether we’re 99% sure or 90% sure here pretty soon.”

Now that percentage of certainty hovers between slim and none.

On June 3rd, numerous members of WDFW’s highly vaunted technical advisory group expressed serious doubts that treponema could be the root cause of elk hoof disease.  Though the bacteria do appear to be involved, the unmistakable consensus was that treponemes are secondary or tertiary to other, more systemic factors.

“[Treponemes] are possibly playing a role, but they’re not the entirety,” said Jennifer Wilson, a research microbiologist with the USDA. 

“I buy the fact that it’s acting like a novel introduced disease.  I’m just saying this treponema data does not support that,” said Tom Besser, a specialist in Veterinary Microbiology and Pathology at WSU.

“I also have a little bit of a concern because the treponema hypothesis still requires an initiating event… Until you figure out what that triggering event was you’re not going to be able to really understand the disease,” said Dr. Anne Fairbrother, an Ecotoxicologist with Exponent Engineering and Scientific Consulting.

“You’re mentioning lots of different bacteria.  That’s one piece of the puzzle… but there are other things that seem to be missing in the puzzle.  Big pieces.  The big pieces are the environmental factors and why this particular region and not other regions,” said Dale Moore, an expert in preventive veterinary medicine at WSU.

Now, more than 20 years since the onset of elk hoof disease, and nearly 5 years since they began “actively” investigating this condition, WDFW is left without a single viable working hypothesis.  Despite all of this, WDFW officials still insist they are giving it their best effort.

Asked to weigh in on the matter, wildlife activist Bruce Barnes said, “They’re playing the public for a bunch of fools.”

Full article here: http://jongosch.com/wdfws-treponema-theory-dismantled-by-technical-advisory-group-hoof-rot-continues-to-decimate-elk-herds/

[Elkaholic daWg]

Cascadia wildlands was ALL I needed to see for the flaming red flag to go up!

Thank them for the help, but keep a CLOSE eye on them.......


Press Release:
Petition Filed to Require Nonlethal Steps to Control Washington Wolves

For Immediate Release, June 9, 2014

Contacts:
Amaroq Weiss, Center for Biological Diversity, (707) 779-9613
Josh Laughlin, Cascadia Wildlands, (541) 844-8182
Mike Petersen, The Lands Council, (509) 209-2406
John Mellgren, Western Environmental Law Center, (541) 525-5087


http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155111.0.html

[t6]

Special T -   We have been doing some traveling and talking with sportsmen in other areas too see if its an isolated thing.

It doesn't seem to be as isolated as we have been led to believe however the sportsmen we talked to all have the same idea of potential contributing factors. 

Further testing along with open and honest lines of communication are needed to solve the problem. 

If anyone knows of places other than SW WA where elk hoof deformities have been found, please send a PM. 

[Special T]

I heard 3rd hand about a case of hoof rot up here in the 418 Nooksack, I don't think spraying is common here. That may change with the large purchase Weyerhaeuser has made purchasing all the Longview fiber land up here.

[Tbar]

They are watching several areas throughout Western Washington, not just Southwest (St Helens).

[t6]

Ever been to Tillamook?