Pro Wolf Hunters?

[idahohuntr]

While you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf.

So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it.

 

Sadly, you may be correct.  Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though??  I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife.

Poachers are scumbags unless they're poaching wolves, then they're DIY wildlife managers.

I've come to the conclusion that WA is a wolf sanctuary state and legal means of management will be .nil
 
DIY wildlife management is the only option left on the table.  This is what angers me; that otherwise law abiding hunters will be reduced to poaching, folks who'd never dream of taking any other animal out of season, folks who stop fishing when they reach their limit, folks who make sure to use a single barbless hook in a selective gear rules area,  folks who have six copies of the fish and game regulations scattered through their house and hunting rigs, folks who wouldn't even shoot a grouse from the highway....I know plenty of folks like that, but if they see a wolf they're going to take a shot at it, if they see one on the highway they're going to swerve to hit it, not miss it.

Nope.  A poacher is a poacher.  Just because you follow all the other rules does not entitle you to poach wildlife.  As frustrating as it may be, we have laws in this country for a reason.  If you don't like them, then work to change them.  Poaching wolves simply ramps up the rhetoric for the anti's...I hope any wolf poachers at this fragile point in wolf management get the book thrown at them...take their guns, truck, make them serve jail time and invoke a lifetime hunting license ban 

[jasnt]

For once I agree with idahohunter. We should not be breaking the law.  That ruins our credibility with non-hunting voters!  Instead I think we should be verifying these wolves our selves and making it very public. Pics,gps coordinates the works

[GameHunter1959]

BAN ALL WOLF LOVING TROLLS; PROBABYLY NOT A HUNTER ANYWAY.....LMFAO

[wolfbait]

While you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf.

So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it.

 

Sadly, you may be correct.  Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though??  I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife.

Poachers are scumbags unless they're poaching wolves, then they're DIY wildlife managers.

I've come to the conclusion that WA is a wolf sanctuary state and legal means of management will be .nil
 
DIY wildlife management is the only option left on the table.  This is what angers me; that otherwise law abiding hunters will be reduced to poaching, folks who'd never dream of taking any other animal out of season, folks who stop fishing when they reach their limit, folks who make sure to use a single barbless hook in a selective gear rules area,  folks who have six copies of the fish and game regulations scattered through their house and hunting rigs, folks who wouldn't even shoot a grouse from the highway....I know plenty of folks like that, but if they see a wolf they're going to take a shot at it, if they see one on the highway they're going to swerve to hit it, not miss it.

IMO WDFW is just another money grubbing environmental group, the only difference is hunters pay WDFW for doing a crappy job, look at their past/present history. WDFW refuse to manage predators that are not endangered, refuse to confirm wolf predation on livestock unless forced to do so, forcing ranchers to break laws in order to protect their livestock. WDFW fail to acknowledge the impact wolves are having on the game herds, refuse to confirm wolf packs,  all because WDFW  has turned into just another environmental group. We have now watched for six years as WDFW pretend to manage WA's wildlife.

Just like Ed Bang's and the USFWS, WDFW released wolves in several different parts of WA and then and still today pretend there are no wolves in those areas that people report.  The same techniques the USFWS used to flood ID, MT and WY with wolves are being use by WDFW, the only difference is the terminology, migrating wolves have replaced wolf introduction, wolf releases.

KFHunter is correct the only wolf management will come from the public, which unfortunately has already been proven in Idaho does not work, just not enough people in the woods shooting. 

Jasnt has a good idea also, but as we recently seen with the wolves in McFarland CR, WDFW will just go ahead with whatever lie fits their agenda, the wolf/wolves are part of the lookout pack etc..

WDFW is going to manage WA right out of hunting.

 

[KFhunter]

While you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf.

So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it.

 

Sadly, you may be correct.  Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though??  I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife.

Poachers are scumbags unless they're poaching wolves, then they're DIY wildlife managers.

I've come to the conclusion that WA is a wolf sanctuary state and legal means of management will be .nil
 
DIY wildlife management is the only option left on the table.  This is what angers me; that otherwise law abiding hunters will be reduced to poaching, folks who'd never dream of taking any other animal out of season, folks who stop fishing when they reach their limit, folks who make sure to use a single barbless hook in a selective gear rules area,  folks who have six copies of the fish and game regulations scattered through their house and hunting rigs, folks who wouldn't even shoot a grouse from the highway....I know plenty of folks like that, but if they see a wolf they're going to take a shot at it, if they see one on the highway they're going to swerve to hit it, not miss it.

Nope.  A poacher is a poacher.  Just because you follow all the other rules does not entitle you to poach wildlife.  As frustrating as it may be, we have laws in this country for a reason.  If you don't like them, then work to change them.  Poaching wolves simply ramps up the rhetoric for the anti's...I hope any wolf poachers at this fragile point in wolf management get the book thrown at them...take their guns, truck, make them serve jail time and invoke a lifetime hunting license ban 

Don't personalize this to mean me, not sure if that's your intent when you use the word "You";  I'm guilty of that doing that myself but I need to distance myself from this meaning me personally. 

I don't advocate poaching at all in any form, even wolves.


I also disagree that the wolf recovery is "fragile" at this point, and I'll take the word of WDFW for that over yours.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/faq.html#12

Is WDFW concerned that killing wolves will set back the statewide recovery effort?

No.Wolves are very adaptable animals that can thrive in a variety of habitats so long as they have adequate food and are not exterminated through indiscriminant killing. Thousands of wolves have been killed in the Rocky Mountain states in recent decades, yet the species continues to recover in that region.

A model developed by Washington State University in conjunction with the authors of Washington’s wolf plan found that removing wolves pose a very low risk to the statewide recovery objectives once population levels reach numbers currently documented in the eastern Washington recovery region. The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands.

WDFW's Q&A statement I quoted above is very conflicting,  I believe they just threw in the part about "indiscriminate" killing to thwart poaching - It's hogwash.  No amount of poaching is going to hamper the wolf recovery effort.   As proven in Idaho, there just isn't enough poaching to be had even when the state government green lights it.   WA will be less effective than WA in this regard. 



 

[idahohuntr]

Not you "personally"...but when you called wolf poachers DIY wildlife managers you seemed to be suggesting they weren't poachers in some way.    A poacher is a poacher

On the comments I made regarding the "fragile point in wolf management"...as I have consistently noted time and again, it is not biological fragility that I am talking about...I have no doubt gray wolves are well beyond recovered in the Northern Rocky Mountain states and will continue to expand in Washington.  I am speaking about the much more fragile point in WOLF MANAGEMENT...as in the people side of things...the de-listing, lethal/harvest potential, etc...we are still at a very fragile point since they are listed on the state ESA in E. Wa.  We need to show folks who are less educated that wdfw and hunters can conserve and manage wolves just like all the other wildlife in this state.  How things play out in the next 5-10 years will be critical to setting the stage for wolf management in Washington for decades to come...thats what I mean by fragile.

The last sentence in that Q&A you posted is very intriguing: The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands.

I think what they actually mean is the real danger is to de-listing process, not biological recovery...meaning if people keep poaching wolves it makes it harder to de-list wolves...which will make it harder for wdfw to manage wolves.  Something for all those "DIY wildlife managers" to think about 

[KFhunter]

Not you "personally"...but when you called wolf poachers DIY wildlife managers you seemed to be suggesting they weren't poachers in some way.    A poacher is a poacher

yes, a poacher is a poacher is a poacher.  I guess you don't want to see my point that an otherwise lawful person will turn to poaching for lack of faith in WDFW to manage wolves.  The polls don't lie.  I also think that the hunters that make up Hunting-Washington.com are far more lawful and ethical than the average hunter that don't even know about this website.  What would the polls look like if you asked the average hunter out in the woods who doesn't belong to this site?  


On the comments I made regarding the "fragile point in wolf management"...as I have consistently noted time and again, it is not biological fragility that I am talking about...I have no doubt gray wolves are well beyond recovered in the Northern Rocky Mountain states and will continue to expand in Washington. 

At least you agree there is a bunch of wolves and they're in no danger of going away any time soon.

I am speaking about the much more fragile point in WOLF MANAGEMENT...as in the people side of things...the de-listing, lethal/harvest potential, etc...we are still at a very fragile point since they are listed on the state ESA in E. Wa.

The bureaucracy is fragile, not the species.   Seriously is that your argument?  Weak position to be in, as there is no science in bureaucracy,  only money and power.  E.WA don't give a crap about what Olympia wants.

 We need to show folks who are less educated that wdfw

ya, we're all knuckle draggers

and hunters can conserve and manage wolves just like all the other wildlife in this state.  How things play out in the next 5-10 years will be critical to setting the stage for wolf management in Washington for decades to come...thats what I mean by fragile.

blah blah - WDFW is never going to win the hearts and minds of E.WA - especially with all the shenanigans they've pulled and continue to pull.  THAT's the fragle part isn't it, trying to get folks to tolerate wolves.  Ain't gonna happen buddy, WDFW lost that one. You can thank them.

The last sentence in that Q&A you posted is very intriguing: The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands.

I think what they actually mean is the real danger is to de-listing process, not biological recovery...meaning if people keep poaching wolves it makes it harder to de-list wolves...which will make it harder for wdfw to manage wolves.  Something for all those "DIY wildlife managers" to think about 

The lynch pin to the wolf recovery is tolerance, that's the fragile part in which they speak and you as well.   We all know this it's no secret.   I submit that WDFW has lost this battle before it even began;  they lost it in the wolf meetings when they were condescending and haughty,  they lost it when they wouldn't verify wolf kills, they continue to loose it every day.

 

[AspenBud]

Not you "personally"...but when you called wolf poachers DIY wildlife managers you seemed to be suggesting they weren't poachers in some way.    A poacher is a poacher

yes, a poacher is a poacher is a poacher.  I guess you don't want to see my point that an otherwise lawful person will turn to poaching for lack of faith in WDFW to manage wolves.  The polls don't lie.  I also think that the hunters that make up Hunting-Washington.com are far more lawful and ethical than the average hunter that don't even know about this website.  What would the polls look like if you asked the average hunter out in the woods who doesn't belong to this site?  


On the comments I made regarding the "fragile point in wolf management"...as I have consistently noted time and again, it is not biological fragility that I am talking about...I have no doubt gray wolves are well beyond recovered in the Northern Rocky Mountain states and will continue to expand in Washington. 

At least you agree there is a bunch of wolves and they're in no danger of going away any time soon.

I am speaking about the much more fragile point in WOLF MANAGEMENT...as in the people side of things...the de-listing, lethal/harvest potential, etc...we are still at a very fragile point since they are listed on the state ESA in E. Wa.

The bureaucracy is fragile, not the species.   Seriously is that your argument?  Weak position to be in, as there is no science in bureaucracy,  only money and power.  E.WA don't give a crap about what Olympia wants.

 We need to show folks who are less educated that wdfw

ya, we're all knuckle draggers

and hunters can conserve and manage wolves just like all the other wildlife in this state.  How things play out in the next 5-10 years will be critical to setting the stage for wolf management in Washington for decades to come...thats what I mean by fragile.

blah blah - WDFW is never going to win the hearts and minds of E.WA - especially with all the shenanigans they've pulled and continue to pull.  THAT's the fragle part isn't it, trying to get folks to tolerate wolves.  Ain't gonna happen buddy, WDFW lost that one. You can thank them.

The last sentence in that Q&A you posted is very intriguing: The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands.

I think what they actually mean is the real danger is to de-listing process, not biological recovery...meaning if people keep poaching wolves it makes it harder to de-list wolves...which will make it harder for wdfw to manage wolves.  Something for all those "DIY wildlife managers" to think about 

The lynch pin to the wolf recovery is tolerance, that's the fragile part in which they speak and you as well.   We all know this it's no secret.   I submit that WDFW has lost this battle before it even began;  they lost it in the wolf meetings when they were condescending and haughty,  they lost it when they wouldn't verify wolf kills, they continue to loose it every day.

I think they knew it was lost from the beginning. There were many who wanted wolves shot on sight right from the start, before a single wolf set foot here, and there was no reasoning with them. I suspect that if they come across as haughty and condescending it's because they know the tune isn't going to change because it was playing before wolves got here.

[KFhunter]

I beg to differ.  Most folks who appear anti-wolf (folks you brand as anti)  aren't, Bearpaw, myself and many others don't fall into the anti-wolf category.

We're pro-management, we can argue on the quantity that's viable for WA; but we're all pro-wolf in that regard.  I've never said kill em all,  I've always said maintain them and keep numbers low - especially in low herd Elk density areas like the NE.  Even before the wolf I was calling for restricted Elk hunting in the NE and herd building,  so when the wolf came I was even more frustrated for the Elk.


You and Idahohntr should be railing for management and calling for special means for managing wolves before the whole state turns into anti-wolfers.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

    I think a lot of the apparent blind hate for wolves just motivates the anti hunters that much more. We need to show constructive criticism and solutions rather than the "gut shoot em all" rhetoric. Might work out for us better.

Let me get this straight.

You feel that anti hunters are motivated by the hate that hunters may have for wolves. 

You feel that we will win over the anti hunters by showing constructive criticism and "solutions".

What are you smoking? If you were a hunter, you would probably know by now that "anti hunters" are just that....anti hunters. They could care less what we think, it is what we do that bothers them.

Will they hate us less if we adopt their mindset? Yes. Yes they would like us more if we stopped killing all their forest friends and eating them.

Are you a hunter? Have you shared your thoughts on this topic before?

What big mouthed SSSers will do is give anti hunters ammunition to denigrate all hunters and marginalize us when it comes to management and influence.

Something like "See, those hunting fools just want to illegally kill anything they can" They are nothing but a bunch of criminal, poaching, bloodthirsty, animals and their opinion means nothing". "We don't need to include them in any management solutions because they don't want reasonable management."

[washelkhunter]

Thats the big question. What does "reasonable" mean in wolf planning, and who decides that?

[cougarbart]

So to stir the pot! Do you really believe(even with how they manage other predators)that wdfw will ever manage wolves responsibly?

[h2ofowlr]

Gonna be rough while a balance is achieved and I'm no biologist but I like my wilderness as wild as possible. Isn't that what makes alaska awesome?

I think I see your point,but having a balance with wolves here in the western states is really not going to happen with so much livestock and people.
Alaska is more wild and can handle a balance of wolves.

Alaska allows everyone to hunt them and also does arieal control of them.  Probably easier to see especial on tundra areas.  It will be difficult to hunt here with thick vegetation.  They will become a huge issue before this is over.

[CAMPMEAT]

.....................the State is making some good people criminals. They are forcing things (wolves) on us, that we don't want.

[washelkhunter]

We just need to relocate all those hillbilly's east of the cascades somewhere else. Wolves will do fine then.