Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: idahohuntr on June 19, 2014, 10:35:52 PMQuote from: KFhunter on June 19, 2014, 09:42:09 PMWhile you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf. So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it. Sadly, you may be correct. Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though?? I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife. Poachers are scumbags unless they're poaching wolves, then they're DIY wildlife managers. I've come to the conclusion that WA is a wolf sanctuary state and legal means of management will be .nil DIY wildlife management is the only option left on the table. This is what angers me; that otherwise law abiding hunters will be reduced to poaching, folks who'd never dream of taking any other animal out of season, folks who stop fishing when they reach their limit, folks who make sure to use a single barbless hook in a selective gear rules area, folks who have six copies of the fish and game regulations scattered through their house and hunting rigs, folks who wouldn't even shoot a grouse from the highway....I know plenty of folks like that, but if they see a wolf they're going to take a shot at it, if they see one on the highway they're going to swerve to hit it, not miss it.
Quote from: KFhunter on June 19, 2014, 09:42:09 PMWhile you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf. So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it. Sadly, you may be correct. Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though?? I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife.
While you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf. So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it.
Quote from: KFhunter on June 20, 2014, 09:45:37 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on June 19, 2014, 10:35:52 PMQuote from: KFhunter on June 19, 2014, 09:42:09 PMWhile you're all talking about it an SSS'r is managing a wolf. So continue to talk about it until you're blue and in the end the SSS'r will be the only one in the woods actually doing something about it. Sadly, you may be correct. Certainly you would agree that poachers are scumbags who should be subject to prosecution though?? I really hope you don't condone poaching wildlife. Poachers are scumbags unless they're poaching wolves, then they're DIY wildlife managers. I've come to the conclusion that WA is a wolf sanctuary state and legal means of management will be .nil DIY wildlife management is the only option left on the table. This is what angers me; that otherwise law abiding hunters will be reduced to poaching, folks who'd never dream of taking any other animal out of season, folks who stop fishing when they reach their limit, folks who make sure to use a single barbless hook in a selective gear rules area, folks who have six copies of the fish and game regulations scattered through their house and hunting rigs, folks who wouldn't even shoot a grouse from the highway....I know plenty of folks like that, but if they see a wolf they're going to take a shot at it, if they see one on the highway they're going to swerve to hit it, not miss it.Nope. A poacher is a poacher. Just because you follow all the other rules does not entitle you to poach wildlife. As frustrating as it may be, we have laws in this country for a reason. If you don't like them, then work to change them. Poaching wolves simply ramps up the rhetoric for the anti's...I hope any wolf poachers at this fragile point in wolf management get the book thrown at them...take their guns, truck, make them serve jail time and invoke a lifetime hunting license ban
Is WDFW concerned that killing wolves will set back the statewide recovery effort?No.Wolves are very adaptable animals that can thrive in a variety of habitats so long as they have adequate food and are not exterminated through indiscriminant killing. Thousands of wolves have been killed in the Rocky Mountain states in recent decades, yet the species continues to recover in that region.A model developed by Washington State University in conjunction with the authors of Washington’s wolf plan found that removing wolves pose a very low risk to the statewide recovery objectives once population levels reach numbers currently documented in the eastern Washington recovery region. The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands.
Not you "personally"...but when you called wolf poachers DIY wildlife managers you seemed to be suggesting they weren't poachers in some way. A poacher is a poacher yes, a poacher is a poacher is a poacher. I guess you don't want to see my point that an otherwise lawful person will turn to poaching for lack of faith in WDFW to manage wolves. The polls don't lie. I also think that the hunters that make up Hunting-Washington.com are far more lawful and ethical than the average hunter that don't even know about this website. What would the polls look like if you asked the average hunter out in the woods who doesn't belong to this site? On the comments I made regarding the "fragile point in wolf management"...as I have consistently noted time and again, it is not biological fragility that I am talking about...I have no doubt gray wolves are well beyond recovered in the Northern Rocky Mountain states and will continue to expand in Washington. At least you agree there is a bunch of wolves and they're in no danger of going away any time soon. I am speaking about the much more fragile point in WOLF MANAGEMENT...as in the people side of things...the de-listing, lethal/harvest potential, etc...we are still at a very fragile point since they are listed on the state ESA in E. Wa. The bureaucracy is fragile, not the species. Seriously is that your argument? Weak position to be in, as there is no science in bureaucracy, only money and power. E.WA don't give a crap about what Olympia wants. We need to show folks who are less educated that wdfw ya, we're all knuckle draggers and hunters can conserve and manage wolves just like all the other wildlife in this state. How things play out in the next 5-10 years will be critical to setting the stage for wolf management in Washington for decades to come...thats what I mean by fragile.blah blah - WDFW is never going to win the hearts and minds of E.WA - especially with all the shenanigans they've pulled and continue to pull. THAT's the fragle part isn't it, trying to get folks to tolerate wolves. Ain't gonna happen buddy, WDFW lost that one. You can thank them. The last sentence in that Q&A you posted is very intriguing: The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands. I think what they actually mean is the real danger is to de-listing process, not biological recovery...meaning if people keep poaching wolves it makes it harder to de-list wolves...which will make it harder for wdfw to manage wolves. Something for all those "DIY wildlife managers" to think about
Quote from: idahohuntr on June 21, 2014, 04:51:03 PMNot you "personally"...but when you called wolf poachers DIY wildlife managers you seemed to be suggesting they weren't poachers in some way. A poacher is a poacher yes, a poacher is a poacher is a poacher. I guess you don't want to see my point that an otherwise lawful person will turn to poaching for lack of faith in WDFW to manage wolves. The polls don't lie. I also think that the hunters that make up Hunting-Washington.com are far more lawful and ethical than the average hunter that don't even know about this website. What would the polls look like if you asked the average hunter out in the woods who doesn't belong to this site? On the comments I made regarding the "fragile point in wolf management"...as I have consistently noted time and again, it is not biological fragility that I am talking about...I have no doubt gray wolves are well beyond recovered in the Northern Rocky Mountain states and will continue to expand in Washington. At least you agree there is a bunch of wolves and they're in no danger of going away any time soon. I am speaking about the much more fragile point in WOLF MANAGEMENT...as in the people side of things...the de-listing, lethal/harvest potential, etc...we are still at a very fragile point since they are listed on the state ESA in E. Wa. The bureaucracy is fragile, not the species. Seriously is that your argument? Weak position to be in, as there is no science in bureaucracy, only money and power. E.WA don't give a crap about what Olympia wants. We need to show folks who are less educated that wdfw ya, we're all knuckle draggers and hunters can conserve and manage wolves just like all the other wildlife in this state. How things play out in the next 5-10 years will be critical to setting the stage for wolf management in Washington for decades to come...thats what I mean by fragile.blah blah - WDFW is never going to win the hearts and minds of E.WA - especially with all the shenanigans they've pulled and continue to pull. THAT's the fragle part isn't it, trying to get folks to tolerate wolves. Ain't gonna happen buddy, WDFW lost that one. You can thank them. The last sentence in that Q&A you posted is very intriguing: The real danger to recovery is if people lose confidence in WDFW’s ability to manage wolves and take matters into their own hands. I think what they actually mean is the real danger is to de-listing process, not biological recovery...meaning if people keep poaching wolves it makes it harder to de-list wolves...which will make it harder for wdfw to manage wolves. Something for all those "DIY wildlife managers" to think about The lynch pin to the wolf recovery is tolerance, that's the fragile part in which they speak and you as well. We all know this it's no secret. I submit that WDFW has lost this battle before it even began; they lost it in the wolf meetings when they were condescending and haughty, they lost it when they wouldn't verify wolf kills, they continue to loose it every day.
Quote from: clockwork on June 19, 2014, 09:35:16 PM I think a lot of the apparent blind hate for wolves just motivates the anti hunters that much more. We need to show constructive criticism and solutions rather than the "gut shoot em all" rhetoric. Might work out for us better.Let me get this straight. You feel that anti hunters are motivated by the hate that hunters may have for wolves. You feel that we will win over the anti hunters by showing constructive criticism and "solutions".What are you smoking? If you were a hunter, you would probably know by now that "anti hunters" are just that....anti hunters. They could care less what we think, it is what we do that bothers them. Will they hate us less if we adopt their mindset? Yes. Yes they would like us more if we stopped killing all their forest friends and eating them. Are you a hunter? Have you shared your thoughts on this topic before?
I think a lot of the apparent blind hate for wolves just motivates the anti hunters that much more. We need to show constructive criticism and solutions rather than the "gut shoot em all" rhetoric. Might work out for us better.
Quote from: clockwork on June 19, 2014, 07:15:11 PMGonna be rough while a balance is achieved and I'm no biologist but I like my wilderness as wild as possible. Isn't that what makes alaska awesome?I think I see your point,but having a balance with wolves here in the western states is really not going to happen with so much livestock and people.Alaska is more wild and can handle a balance of wolves.
Gonna be rough while a balance is achieved and I'm no biologist but I like my wilderness as wild as possible. Isn't that what makes alaska awesome?