Save Our Elk - Examining antler deformities, lungworms, copper deficiencies, etc

[idahohuntr]

Idaho.... you failed to answer my question....  "What do you think I get from this publicly?"     NOTHING.... I get NOTHING.    Yet you insinuate that I along with others are in disagreement with WDFW for some kind of profit or as you put it "Grandstanding" for our fifteen minuets of fame.

I was speaking generally about many of the most vocal critics.  I realize you do not appear to be pushing articles/books/grandstanding at meetings etc. so it is probably unfair for me to cast you in that light...it is one of the dangers of generalizing about folks. 

I have far more than fifteen minuets into my research.

When it comes to research, quality is much more important than quantity. 

[t6]

You don't know me or my research so how can you justify a judgement?   

[luvtohnt]

I have been following these threads for some time now. Why does Atrazine keep getting mentioned? I would not think that it would be an acceptable chemical for forestry. Is anyone aware of what chemicals are used on a regular basis in this area? It would also be nice if someone could post some links to articles that suggest or even make a conection to these deformities in ungulates caused by herbicide.

Also, I have not read many WDFW news releases, has anyone explored the idea that the soil composition in this area could be altered in a way that allows this disease to run rampant? After all there was a major ecosystem altering event in 1980!! Just an idea

Brandon

[t6]

Lots of articles have been posted already.  If it were as a result of Mt. St. Helens, then why wouldn't elk on the east side show the same effects?   Elk in the Monument area are not seeing the same disease... they run thru volcanic ash day in and day out.   

[idahohuntr]

If it were as a result of herbicidesMt. St. Helens, then why wouldn't elk on the east side show the same effects?   

This is perhaps one of the biggest issues that highlights the weakness of your herbicide theory.  You ever been to Eastern Washington?  There is no shortage of herbicide use...yet we rarely see any hoof rot.

[pianoman9701]

What a surprising reply to your post T6, huh? 

[idahohuntr]

What a surprising reply to your post T6, huh? 

Yea, real shocking one wasn't it...you like how I used his own logic to explain why I don't think herbicides are the primary factor causing hoof rot?  You have a real habit of making posts without contributing anything useful whatsoever...at least t6 discusses the topic at hand. 

[luvtohnt]

Lots of articles have been posted already.  If it were as a result of Mt. St. Helens, then why wouldn't elk on the east side show the same effects?   Elk in the Monument area are not seeing the same disease... they run thru volcanic ash day in and day out.

Which thread are they posted in? I tried a search and came up with nothing. I wasnt alive but based on videos and info available, didn't all the lahar go north and west? Kind of the same direction that the disease has moved? I was thinking that the hot post volcanic surface (again think lahar) woud allow bacteria of all sorts to flourish. Just because ash is present may not mean those elk would be affected.

I will ask a third time and hopefully get an answer, why all the discussion about Atrazine? This is not a common forestry chemical.

Brandon

[t6]

Fist let me address Idaho.... if you are going to quote me... do it right or not at all.    How much herbicide got sprayed on the east side?  Its not an area where the timber companies battle significant underbrush.  Additionally fire is common place on the east side and much of the grasses get burned every few years or so.  Again attempts to discredit in order to push the WDFW agenda.  I understand you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you but be honest about it. 



Brandon.... Im not sure your serious or not.  Atrazine even if its not labeled as such is one of the favorite chemicals of the timber companies and DNR.  The commonly use the trade names for the chemicals sprayed when posting the area.   Additionally much of the information has been compiled by Jon Gosh and can be found on his site. jongosch.com     

You can also look at studies done by different Universities showing the effects of Atrazine.  A simple wikipedia search can give you some kind of idea and may start your search off this site. 

[idahohuntr]

Fist let me address Idaho.... if you are going to quote me... do it right or not at all.    How much herbicide got sprayed on the east side?  Its not an area where the timber companies battle significant underbrush.  Additionally fire is common place on the east side and much of the grasses get burned every few years or so.  Again attempts to discredit in order to push the WDFW agenda.  I understand you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you but be honest about it. 

t6, are you seriously suggesting herbicides are used sparingly over on the east side???  Have you ever heard of this little thing called "agriculture"?? 

I am not "attempting" to discredit you...I am pointing out where you are not logical...you say Mt. St. Helens ash can't be the culprit because the ash was found on the E and W side of the state...but it must be herbicides because obviously there are no/few herbicides used on the East side? Wow!  You clearly have never left Seattle.  Which brings me to my last point...I have no connection to wdfw in any way other than as a volunteer on a 25 person panel and a license buyer.  I have no friends or relatives that work there either...so when you say I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me...it is an absurd an untruthful allegation. 

[Coastal_native]

I thought idahohuntr already admitted along time ago that he was a biologist from a federal agency.  Then he went on to say that he doesn't want to come across as the 'I'm a biologist, so I'm always right' kinda guy and that he truly values the input of the 'on the ground experience guys'.   

[Coastal_native]

Ok, I was a little off, but at least we've established he's not a wdfw bio.


"No...you are a guy with on the ground experience...something that is unfortunately not valued as much as a college degree these days

I don't have much of an opinion on the 4 pt issue but I definitely support people who are willing to share their background/field experience and not just accept a biologists word as the gospel.  I say that as a biologist for the feds (I will have to go into hiding now ).  I deal with a wide range of contentious issues and I never discount experienced, local knowledge.  I also never use "Im a biologist" or "I have degrees in fish and wildlife" to support a position...if I can't provide evidence or information or articulate my opinion/position better than "I have a degree" then I probably ought to re-evaluate the issue"

[idahohuntr]

Ok, I was a little off, but at least we've established he's not a wdfw bio.


"No...you are a guy with on the ground experience...something that is unfortunately not valued as much as a college degree these days

I don't have much of an opinion on the 4 pt issue but I definitely support people who are willing to share their background/field experience and not just accept a biologists word as the gospel.  I say that as a biologist for the feds (I will have to go into hiding now ).  I deal with a wide range of contentious issues and I never discount experienced, local knowledge.  I also never use "Im a biologist" or "I have degrees in fish and wildlife" to support a position...if I can't provide evidence or information or articulate my opinion/position better than "I have a degree" then I probably ought to re-evaluate the issue"

I'm not following your point here...what I said long ago applies today as well.   

[Coastal_native]

My point is that you've already stated that you're a fed bio...not wdfw. 

[Coastal_native]

...but thank you for supporting those that have decided to not just accept what the expert panel says as gospel.