They shot the alpha female. Oops.

[AspenBud]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

[idahohuntr]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

If the state is having funding issues and needs some donations? I'll donate whatever caliber bullets they need to shoot more alpha ALL Wolfs!!!!

[KFhunter]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

[idahohuntr]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

[bigmacc]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

Oh come on!..If they wanted "them delisted as much as the rest of us" why do they look at you crosseyed when you tell them you seen one, found sign or heard one or even showed them pictures of one you seen in the mid 90,s ...."theres no wolves around here" is what we were told in 1995....my

[idahohuntr]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

Oh come on!..If they wanted "them delisted as much as the rest of us" why do they look at you crosseyed when you tell them you seen one, found sign or heard one or even showed them pictures of one you seen in the mid 90,s

Probably because your wolf sightings 20 years ago are not all that helpful today     

[KFhunter]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

WDFW refused cattlemen money for a trapper, conditions were such that the bio's could accompany the trapper.   WDFW's statement was that they didn't want to appear to favor the cattlemen.

Then promptly took money from Conservation northwest for the range rider program.


You're correct,  WDFW is NOT sitting on the fence thank you for reminding us all that they're firmly planted on the pro-wolf side...the most they'll do for us wanting wolf management is do a Wilson over the fence. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

Sometimes I am tempted to ask some of our members just how much that WDFW water bucket weighs......

[bigmacc]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

Oh come on!..If they wanted "them delisted as much as the rest of us" why do they look at you crosseyed when you tell them you seen one, found sign or heard one or even showed them pictures of one you seen in the mid 90,s

Probably because your wolf sightings 20 years ago are not all that helpful today   

There in lies the problem,....if they would have listened,had an open mind etc,etc back then and the not to distant past for that matter maybe things would and could be a lot different today,even for people like you and folks on both sides of this coin. Maybe the conversations and arguements you hear of pro wolf/anti wolf would,nt have festered to the point its at today....i guess your right as usuall tho,what people see,have seen,taken photos of, talked about,heard or were concerned with 20 years ago are "not all that helpful today".....WOW,did you really say that!?

[wolfbait]

2. Suspicious that WDFW is involved in a conspiracy to eliminate wolves (boy, the commenters don't spend much time on HuntWa, do they...),

I always laugh, WDFW never catches a break. Both sides hate them.

WDFW has it tougher than any other state in the west when it comes to wolf management...they've got the usual vocal hunters clamoring to kill every wolf in the state, but then they've got some of the most liberal politicians and voters and legislators in the country to also appease.  Other states, the spectrum on wolf management ranges from kill many to kill them all.  Washington has pretty good representation on a much broader spectrum ranging from save them all to kill them all 

True that,  WDFW sits on the fence and they're getting yanked on by each side trying to pull them down to their side.  Unfortunately that's a very bad place to sit if you ever want to accomplish anything...which is what's happening (nothing)

One thing that infuriates me is even sitting on the fence would condone documenting all the packs, they could tout the success for the pro-wolfers and document the progress towards de-listing for the anti-wolfers - and then a better estimation for hunting for all us on HW. 

I'm not getting the since they're aggressively trying to document all the established packs and breeding pairs.

They are not sitting on the fence.  They are actively managing wolves in a way that is acceptable to the very diverse people of Washington State.  Taking lethal actions on wolves in this state is anything but fence sitting. 

They very much want to document every pack possible...they just can't assume or guess where packs are.  They have to have hard evidence...so when I talk to their wolf guys they always usually say...yea we know/suspect there are some wolves up that canyon or over in that drainage...but we haven't been able to trap/capture etc. them and confirm pups or whatever the requirement is.  The assumption that wdfw does not confirm packs because they have ill intentions is not supported by any evidence I have have ever seen...they want them de-listed as much as the rest of us.

Oh come on!..If they wanted "them delisted as much as the rest of us" why do they look at you crosseyed when you tell them you seen one, found sign or heard one or even showed them pictures of one you seen in the mid 90,s

Probably because your wolf sightings 20 years ago are not all that helpful today   

There in lies the problem,....if they would have listened,had an open mind etc,etc back then and the not to distant past for that matter maybe things would and could be a lot different today,even for people like you and folks on both sides of this coin. Maybe the conversations and arguements you hear of pro wolf/anti wolf would,nt have festered to the point its at today....i guess your right as usuall tho,what people see,have seen,taken photos of, talked about,heard or were concerned with 20 years ago are "not all that helpful today".....WOW,did you really say that!?

In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery  http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/

WDFW Wolf Plan-15 BPs!

[idahohuntr]

Look at all this fan mail...   Sorry, I would have been more active but I went out with the neighbor and we killed a little cinnamon bear and had to get it skinned and in the cooler so he could still make it to dinner with the wife on time 

There in lies the problem,....if they would have listened,had an open mind etc,etc back then and the not to distant past for that matter maybe things would and could be a lot different today,even for people like you and folks on both sides of this coin. Maybe the conversations and arguements you hear of pro wolf/anti wolf would,nt have festered to the point its at today....i guess your right as usuall tho,what people see,have seen,taken photos of, talked about,heard or were concerned with 20 years ago are "not all that helpful today".....WOW,did you really say that!?

I don't think having seen wolves in 95 would have changed anything today.  Wa did not introduce wolves like Idaho and Montana and Wyoming...I'm really not discounting what you saw back then, I'm just not sure it means a whole lot.  No doubt wolves were in washington state in 95...just not nearly as many or as common as today. 

Sometimes I am tempted to ask some of our members just how much that WDFW water bucket weighs......

Well, its pretty heavy on this forum    Really though, there are plenty of places where I show little patience with wdfw on other topics...I look at the various programs they run and evaluate them case by case...given what I know about the politics of this state, wolf issues, and wolf management...I think wdfw is doing a better job than nearly anyone on this forum gives them credit for.  There is always room to improve, but they have done a lot right too.

WDFW refused cattlemen money for a trapper, conditions were such that the bio's could accompany the trapper.   WDFW's statement was that they didn't want to appear to favor the cattlemen.

Then promptly took money from Conservation northwest for the range rider program.

You're correct,  WDFW is NOT sitting on the fence thank you for reminding us all that they're firmly planted on the pro-wolf side...the most they'll do for us wanting wolf management is do a Wilson over the fence. 

Yea, I've said before I thought they could have hired better trappers...I understand the image of not wanting cattlemen's involved with wolf trapping...but at the same time it seems like it would have been pretty easy for them to come up with a solution where they just hired the guy the cattlemen would have provided    Was there a specific, detailed offer with all conditions of the cattlemens offer in a document you could send me or post a link to?  I am curious if there was some little fine print somewhere in there that made what seems like a good deal unworkable for the state...not saying there was, but I would sure like to know exactly what the offer was. 

[KFhunter]

For the cattlemens offer of hiring trappers I'm not sure the offer even got far enough to have details.

cattlemen offered to hire trappers to document the wolves

WDFW says no thank you

cattlemen then said they'd adhere to any stipulations WDFW wanted to impose,  suggested the bios go out with the trappers on the runs.


WDFW then said "we don't want to appear favorable to any user group"  or some such nonsense.


then they take monies from conservation northwest.

[idahohuntr]

Yea...i think they could have handled that one better.  In fact, given they are so frequently criticized by groups like the cattlemens and their members regarding their inability to capture wolves or document supposed packs I think it was an error to not take them up on their offer.  To be fair...let CNW or some other group rep from the greenie side tag along as well...make everybody sign non-disclosure agreements and make the whole counting and capture process more transparent to the most vocal critics...WDFW is still in charge and they are not giving in to any particular group...but if folks have expertise that could help...

one other thought...I do see a big difference in having the Cattlemens group trap wolves/collect data on wolves and CNW providing money to pay range riders or depredation fees etc.  Having a very biased group collect the data...no matter how honest and diligent they are does present a big problem in using that data from a public perception standpoint.  A biased group providing funding to cover the expenses of non-lethal measures or poaching reward money...not nearly such a problem from a public perception standpoint.  In fact...it seems fair...if CNW wants to exhaust all of these non-lethal measures first, then let them pay the tab.

[KFhunter]

Well the idea was that bio's do the data collecting.  You're average trapper isn't necessarily the best person to compile data, tissue samples, biographical information and administer any meds the wolf might need from darting or infections. 

WDFW hired a "trapper" that's really a data collecter;  I'm sure he's well qualified to collect all that data and administer medications, but doesn't have an old trappers knowledge of getting the wolf in the trap in the first place.

What was needed was trapping teams dispersed all across known and suspected wolf areas,  the trapper and the bio making a team with others able to tag along if needed - cattlemen reps and inviro reps if they desire to do so  (non-disclosure of course). 


This is a no brainer     To not do this tells me they only want the packs recognized they want to recognize while the other continue to build and build.  Once we hit that magical 15BP per WDFW then there'll be so many wolves in WA there is no danger of falling below the guide lines for wolves  (not so much for Elk and deer) and public as well as private (1800 sheep on Private Hancock land removed due to wolves) grazing will be severely impacted.  OR it's just gross negligence - you pick.