help needed with arrow and broadhead regs please

[Kc_Kracker]

ok so got my new bow paper tuned this morning and will be fine tuning sighting in today I grabbed a assortment of broadheads and a carrying case for them. I got 100 grain and 125 grain because thats all i saw. so i see in the regs it says

"unlawful to hunt with an arrow less than 20 inches in length OR weighing less then 6 grains per pound of draw weight with a minimum weight of 300 grains."

so does this mean my arrows must weight 175-200 grains (before the broadhead weight) , or does this mean if my arrows are over 20" im automatically good? all of my arrows are PSE 200's. but id like to replace them with some in the 300-400 range Im told 

thanks

[bobcat]

Multiply the weight your pulling back (60 lbs, 70 lbs?) by 6. That is how much your arrow must weigh, broadhead included.

[92xj]

Spine number does not equal weight. Your arrow will have a gr per inch number on them. Your complete assembled arrow must be equal or greater than your draw weight times six.

[rover758]

The way I understand it (someone jump in if I'm wrong) ... the 20 inches in length is a stand-alone requirement.  Not only do they have to be at least 20 inches but they also have a minimum weight. 

[Kc_Kracker]

92 there is nothing else on my arrows     

[92xj]

92 there is nothing else on my arrows     

What's the exact arrow and numbers on them, I will see if I can find the grains per inch for you.

[92xj]

Look at this link and see if your arrows are on here.  If so, look at the description and you will see the grains per inch weight of each arrow.
http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/arrow-shafts-c-520_1297.html?osCsid=b4a07409447c427751708b485cf5c538

[Stick em]

Your arrows have to be compliant with all the specs. At least 20 inches, you got that unless your really short.  6 grains per lb of draw weight, minimum 300 grains total. This includes your broadhead, insert, nock and vanes. I suggest getting a digital scale for weighing mail. Weigh your assembled arrow to insure legal specs. For example your shooting a 28 inch arrow that weighs 8.2 grains per inch, 100 grain tip, insert and vanes. It should weigh about 340 grains. That will be legal for 56lb draw or less. If you shoot a 70lb bow your arrow should weight 420 grains. The advantage of the scale you will notice that all arrows do not weight the same, even if they are all out of the same box.

[Rainier10]

Your arrows have to be compliant with all the specs. At least 20 inches, you got that unless your really short.  6 grains per lb of draw weight, minimum 300 grains total. This includes your broadhead, insert, nock and vanes. I suggest getting a digital scale for weighing mail. Weigh your assembled arrow to insure legal specs. For example your shooting a 28 inch arrow that weighs 8.2 grains per inch, 100 grain tip, insert and vanes. It should weigh about 340 grains. That will be legal for 56lb draw or less. If you shoot a 70lb bow your arrow should weight 420 grains. The advantage of the scale you will notice that all arrows do not weight the same, even if they are all out of the same box.

[Special T]

Has anyone actually been checked bor this BS rule?

Full length eason epics 400 are 31" long 8.6 GPI unless your a midget your shooting an arrow over 25" long. that right puts you right at 215 and that does not includethe fletching knock insert etc. so 100 grain broad head or more your fine.

I would imagine that where your going to run into trouble is a youth shooting a min legal draw weight (40-45lb bow). trying to get that to weight, shoot good and straight with out too much additional arch.

I would bet you have a 60lb bow and a 28 in draw. So it is very likely that your arrow is at LEAST 28" long if not longer. arrows tend to shoot better with the weight balanced more forward slightly....

This state should just do a MIN calculation for KE  something like the min arrow is 20" with a weight based on the 40-45lb min lb draw... 

[Rainier10]

I see in your other thread about the new bow, it cam with PSE Sniper arrows.  I see in your original post here that they are PSE 200's.  If I combine those I come up with PSE Sniper 200's and according to the PSE site they are 8.6 grains per inch.  Measure your arrow length probably around 28 or 29" so you have 220-250 grains there, nock, insert and vanes are going to add 30 grains and then the broadhead is the variable to get you to final weight.  Now you just have to know your draw weight multiply it by 6 and that is what is your minimum arrow weight is.  If you bow is under 65 pounds of draw and you use the 125 broadhead you should be good to go.

[Kc_Kracker]

yes rainier i have pse 200, and pse snipers. but nothing is on them for grains at all. and the regs ____ OR ______, so the way its written anything over 20" is good. but id still like to understand this and have a better arrow anyways. 200 spline seems a bit low 

[Rainier10]

I went to the PSE website and got the grains per inch off of the spec page for the 200 spine arrows.  The regs are confusing for sure.  I would just take the setup to a bow shop and they should be able to tell you if what you have is legal and can walk you through all of the rules.  Face to face dialogue is better than the email or message thing over the internet.

[wildmanoutdoors]

KC what is your draw weight on the bow?
Take that and multiply it by 6. Then weigh your complete arrow setup and see if its heavier than the number you got when you multiplied your draw weight by 6. If it is your good to go!

[winshooter88]

KC it is confusing, but what it means is you can't hunt with an arrow less than 20 inches long and you can't hunt with an arrow that weighs less than 6 grains per pound of draw weight, it is not one or the other, it has to meet both requirements.

[Kc_Kracker]

Thanks guys!!

so...
the arrows are 30"
the draw length is 28"
the broadheads are 125 grain

and the draw weight is dead on 60 lbs after checking just now i was told 70 but its 60.
Rainier said these are 8.6gr per ", so...

so if im correct im at 258.3 + 125 for the broadheads putting me at 383.1 ? PLUS another 30 gr or so for fletching etc, so im legal?

[Kc_Kracker]

soooooooo if all this is correct and good, is a spline of 200 on a 60 lb & 325 FPS a good one for elk to? i was told i oughta be in the 300-400 range

[Special T]

Spine is the stiffness of the arrow.I would think you would shoot 340's or 400 but if the arrows group really well it dont matter. besides spine arrow length can change how an arrow flexes as it flies. This tends to be more important for stick bow shooters than compound guys. I know of re curve guys that buy a dozen arrows take 3 and start cutting them down 1/2" at a time to see what length groups best for their draw, poundage, arrow combo.

[Kc_Kracker]

at 40 yards im pretty solid with groups in a 4" circumference. thats with 200 spline.

[jackelope]

It looks like you should be shooting a 340 splined arrow for best results. 

[rover758]

 

[kckrawler]

When you have 30 minutes to spare, check out this website...

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_1.htm

I found it very helpful and informative when I was getting set up. There's other good information on the site if you feel like studying up some more, this link just takes you to the arrow section. 

[Special T]

at 40 yards im pretty solid with groups in a 4" circumference. thats with 200 spline.

If that is with a broad head and that is your max yardage then id say your OK. You may be able to tighten it up some more with more refinement. 

[bobcat]

I can't take it anymore- the word is "spine," not "spline."

[Kc_Kracker]

I can't take it anymore- the word is "spine," not "spline."

thats funny

[jackelope]

I can't take it anymore- the word is "spine," not "spline."

I can't believe I did that. I even know that...
I could blame it on autocorrect I guess.
 

[Kc_Kracker]

i blame hunt wa for it, i thought it WAS spline because thats what i read all the time. eh life goes on

[Rainier10]

KC, one more question about your draw weight are you getting that 60lbs at full draw or part ways through the draw?  You might have a 70lb draw and when it gets to full draw and the letoff you may be at 60lbs.  You would actually have a 70lb draw bow and would need to match your arrows to that.

[Kc_Kracker]

its set at 60

[bobcat]

KC, one more question about your draw weight are you getting that 60lbs at full draw or part ways through the draw?  You might have a 70lb draw and when it gets to full draw and the letoff you may be at 60lbs.  You would actually have a 70lb draw bow and would need to match your arrows to that.

A 70 pound draw weight with an 80% let off would mean he'd only be holding 14 pounds at full draw, not 60 pounds. 

[jackelope]

There is, I suppose, potential functuionality issues with over-spined arrows. If you're shooting 200 spine arrows and it should be 340...that's a big difference. Not sure if that's a safety concern or not. Just a heads up. I'd be looking for the right answer on that ASAP. You don't want to end up with half a carbon shaft run through your hand after the arrow grenades upon release.

[bobcat]

The "200" isn't actually the spine of that arrow, it's just an arbitrary number PSE used to label that particular arrow. I don't believe it correlates at all with the numbers other arrow manufacturers use.

[jackelope]

So....KC...what spine are the arrows you're shooting?
I assumed that was the spine...

[Rainier10]

KC, one more question about your draw weight are you getting that 60lbs at full draw or part ways through the draw?  You might have a 70lb draw and when it gets to full draw and the letoff you may be at 60lbs.  You would actually have a 70lb draw bow and would need to match your arrows to that.

A 70 pound draw weight with an 80% let off would mean he'd only be holding 14 pounds at full draw, not 60 pounds. 

Not sure how much experience he has with a  bow or measuring draw weight.  If he was doing it himself and not real experienced my concern was it was a 70lb bow that he pulled to full draw with a scale and then was pulling through the valley/letoff and up against the back wall still pulling hard, maybe 60lbs and not realizing he could let up only hold the letoff weight.

Again the forum thing is tough to communicate through and maybe I didn't explain myself clear enough as to what I thought the problem might be.

I really think he needs to take it to a pro shop and see what he has and verify that he has the correct and legal arrows.

[Kc_Kracker]

the shop tested it, its at 60. the arrows are 200 spine according to PSE

[jackelope]

the shop tested it, its at 60. the arrows are 200 spine according to PSE

Did the shop set you up with those arrows?

[Kc_Kracker]

no they came with it i plan to get new ones in the 340 range as soon as i can afford some. the guy at the archery counter told me 200 was plenty safe no worries there just a bit stiff for 60 lbs  sadly Larry (oblguy from hunt wa) wasnt working just some other guy

[Jonathan_S]

I can't take it anymore- the word is "spine," not "spline."

Makes my eye twitch.   

[Kc_Kracker]