dnr land access

[mack2255]

I have just returned from the North end of the state. Can timber co. block access to DNR land. Do I need to buy a permit to get to DNR land on Timer land.....so confused....please help

[CAMPMEAT]

Explain a little more.

[mack2255]

So Rayonier timber is now requiring atleast a genral rec permit at the cost of 65 bucks. Inside the Dickey gmu is there land with pockets of dnr inside. Can they stop me from access to dnr land without there rec permit?

[billythekidrock]

Yep. Unless there is a mainline access corridor like with Weyco near St Helens.

[JimmyHoffa]

yes.  And I think the permit for a lot of that area is the dickey permit not the general rec--though some of the outer stuff can be accessed through general rec permit.  Dickey permits are $200 and already sold out.  Additionally for Rayonier permits, for certain tracts they require you have a special liability insurance for damage to their property/employees and I heard it is $250.  That area is a mess with all the boundaries and different owners.

[lokidog]

What a bunch of crap, can't access state (your's and my land)!  It's bad enough to have to have the DP for unimproved state land access but then to not even be allowed to access DNR land is stupid.

[bobcat]

Tons of state land that is landlocked behind private timber company land. The only way for the public to get access is for the DNR to get easements across the private land, and that's not going to happen because the state doesn't have enough money to pay what the timber companies would want. And, it's not really a priority for the DNR. They have easements across all that private ground for their own use, the easements just aren't for the general  public to use. And that's the way the timber companies like it.

[bigtex]

Tons of state land that is landlocked behind private timber company land. The only way for the public to get access is for the DNR to get easements across the private land, and that's not going to happen because the state doesn't have enough money to pay what the timber companies would want. And, it's not really a priority for the DNR. They have easements across all that private ground for their own use, the easements just aren't for the general  public to use. And that's the way the timber companies like it.

And it's not just state land. Lots of federal land, especially BLM is landlocked (no legal public access).

[mack2255]

Thanks for all the info. As for hunting this year is going to be all pubic land for me. Screw the timber co and the office can't do *censored*s!!!!There are alot of dnr land in sul duc,but alot of logging going on there to.So boots on the ground and ggod luck and skill.good luck to all 

[boneaddict]

Hancock screwed me this year.  I was taking my daughter rock hunting out of North Bend.   Where I wanted to go was just on the other side of a stretch of Hancock.   I stopped to talk to the guard.  Have to buy a yearly permit just to get where I wanted to go.   All new to this eastsider.   I wonder why these big companies get so many tax breaks when they are charging this much for access.   Then Hauser bans rock hunting completely this year on their land.   

[Humptulips]

It seems like DNR is an easy mark or they don't care about the public.
A lot of timber company land is accessed through DNR land. Many logging roads are in and out of different ownerships and might start out as going through private land but cross State and back onto private behind the state land. You would think DNR could bargain for a public easement in return for an easement across DNR to the private land owners behind them.
Don't seem like they do though. Probably would have had public access to most DNR land if they would have thought ahead years ago.

[JimmyHoffa]

Thanks for all the info. As for hunting this year is going to be all pubic land for me. Screw the timber co and the office can't do *censored*s!!!!There are alot of dnr land in sul duc,but alot of logging going on there to.So boots on the ground and ggod luck and skill.good luck to all 

I think all the extra logging might be due to the bridge and culvert replacements in the Clearwater.  They did a ton of logging in CW last winter and this spring, then started tearing up lots of road and moving in equipment and supplies to do road work.  Then all the logging out there just quieted down...and picked up a lot in sol Duc.
Have you hunted in Sol Duc before?

[mack2255]

Yes I have hunted sol duc before. I like all the DNR and forest area there. I have been successful there. Hope to be successful this yr also. I will be camping at the DNR camp ground net to bear cafe stop in and say HI

[huntrights]

Information regarding access to landlocked public lands (also see the attached letter):

Hunter Access to Federal Public Lands
http://www.ducks.org/media/Conservation/Conservation_Documents/_documents/USACSFWMIHunterAccesstoPublicLands.pdf

Public land, locked up
http://www.hcn.org/issues/45.21/public-land-locked-up

New Bill Promoting Public Lands Access for Hunting, Angling Draws Praise from Outdoors Community
http://sfred.org/media-center/news/new-bill-promoting-public-lands-access-for-hunting-angling-draws-praise-fro

Federal lands across West lack access, study finds
http://www.aspentimes.com/news/obituaries/9132628-113/public-access-lands-acres

Montana House votes down "cutting corners" public land access bill
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/19/montana-house-vote-down-cutting-corners-public-land-access-bill/

Excerpt from the “Montana House …” article:
“In Washington, a hunter would be legal in crossing a corner if he didn't stray onto private lands, state Fish and Wildlife police say.
“As far as I'm aware, where four sections come together at a single point, no Washington officer would cite a person who went right over the corner. It seems like Montana is cutting hairs pretty close to cite somebody for trespassing in that instance.”
— Capt. Dan Rahn, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife Region 1 enforcement coordinator.”


Many issues that affect hunters and anglers, like access to landlocked public lands, must be addressed in the political arena.  Our inherent sense of right and wrong makes no difference when it comes to what the applicable laws allow or disallow; the law is the law.  Access to public lands that are landlocked is a national issue that needs to be addressed by Congress and our state legislatures.  Attempts have been made to correct the issue of access to public land, but the efforts seem to have been thwarted by partisan politics.

The message here is that these issues can be fixed if people will VOTE, and VOTE the “right” way.  VOTE only for people that will support and defend the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.  VOTE only for people that will support and defend our hunting and fishing heritage.  VOTE only for people that will support and defend our rights to access our public lands and waters.

[fireweed]

Yep. Unless there is a mainline access corridor like with Weyco near St Helens.

They key question is "is there a public use easement" on that road.  A company might have a road open just to be "nice", but they still can close it if there is no easement.

FYI--The mainline access corridor to St. Helens has NO public use easement.  Weyco keeps it open to keep down bad press.  They can and do close that road regularly and there is no legal requirement for them to open it.  They could charge for access to that 35,000 acres of DNR land..and there's nothing to stop them.

Another item that most don't realize, if the land has no easement, it is  ineligible for any recreation funds (like NOVA).

[kholmes007]

Not that I would advocate necessarily supporting these companies but doesn't Hancock offer a daily use pass for the Snoq. Tree farm?  It's better to dole out just a few bucks than a bunch more if you only want to go one or two days maybe?

[bowbuild]

Tons of state land that is landlocked behind private timber company land. The only way for the public to get access is for the DNR to get easements across the private land, and that's not going to happen because the state doesn't have enough money to pay what the timber companies would want. And, it's not really a priority for the DNR. They have easements across all that private ground for their own use, the easements just aren't for the general  public to use. And that's the way the timber companies like it.

Does that mean all state vehicles (other than law enforcement) need a permit as well?? If not... where is a RCW that grants the state free access (we are the state) and private residents to pay?

[bobcat]

No, of course DNR vehicles don't need an access pass from private timber companies to access DNR land. They have easements for that just like any landowner would have to access their property.

[bowbuild]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

[idahohuntr]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I completely agree...we should have equal rights as any other property owner.

[billythekidrock]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

[idahohuntr]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

That is correct in a very direct sense...but the land is still owned by the people, managed in trust for the people.  So, they (DNR) fund themselves off of the returns (largely timber revenue) from our land...as opposed to us paying taxes to fund that agency.  And its been noted many times dnr land is not managed for public recreation...its to generate revenue for the state (us)...but I would contend with very few exceptions that public recreation and revenue generation are not in conflict...in fact possibly complimentary to one another...so give us access darn it 

[Humptulips]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

That is correct in a very direct sense...but the land is still owned by the people, managed in trust for the people.  So, they (DNR) fund themselves off of the returns (largely timber revenue) from our land...as opposed to us paying taxes to fund that agency. And its been noted many times dnr land is not managed for public recreation...its to generate revenue for the state (us)...but I would contend with very few exceptions that public recreation and revenue generation are not in conflict...in fact possibly complimentary to one another...so give us access darn it 

One could make  pretty good argument that this has changed since the Discover Pass.

[bowbuild]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

That is correct in a very direct sense...but the land is still owned by the people, managed in trust for the people.  So, they (DNR) fund themselves off of the returns (largely timber revenue) from our land...as opposed to us paying taxes to fund that agency. And its been noted many times dnr land is not managed for public recreation...its to generate revenue for the state (us)...but I would contend with very few exceptions that public recreation and revenue generation are not in conflict...in fact possibly complimentary to one another...so give us access darn it 

One could make  pretty good argument that this has changed since the Discover Pass.

Humptulips makes a VERY GOOD point.

[billythekidrock]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

That is correct in a very direct sense...but the land is still owned by the people, managed in trust for the people.  So, they (DNR) fund themselves off of the returns (largely timber revenue) from our land...as opposed to us paying taxes to fund that agency. And its been noted many times dnr land is not managed for public recreation...its to generate revenue for the state (us)...but I would contend with very few exceptions that public recreation and revenue generation are not in conflict...in fact possibly complimentary to one another...so give us access darn it 

One could make  pretty good argument that this has changed since the Discover Pass.

 

[washelkhunter]

Well, my feeling is that if the state (being us) gets to pay taxes on the land, we should have access as well......WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!

I was told by DNR that we do not pay taxes on state land.

Perhaps not directly but I'll bet your fuel tax dollars were used to build the roads and such. Read in the paper today that the DP has been a failure. The recreation board is recommending a tax on bottled water and a return to the repealed excise tax on RV's to fund state parks and recreation. They're calling recreation to be classified as an "essential state service".

[blackdog]

The DNR roads are built and maintained using trust dollars from the logging revenues.

[GameHunter1959]

I just ran into this issue in SE Wa. This is a touchy situation for a number of reasons.

You will want to call the DNR Land Manager for the property you are attempting to access. Couple of things I learned..

Land locked DNR property is generally not accessible. Even if there is an access route across private land, you need to check with the DNR before crossing. If the DNR has a land access agreement with the private land owner, you need to get a copy of it and carry it on you. Generally speaking; there will be a specific access route to gain access to the DNR property. The question is whether or not you are permitted to access it. If you find a road in; check with the DNR to make sure they have not abandoned their road rights. Often; the DNR will give up their road access rights (abandon the road). If they do that; the private land owner (s) surrounding the property have full control of access permission. It is also their job to maintain the road.

Call James Earl at the Clarkston, Wa DNR facility. James can put you in contact with the DNR Manager for your area.

[bobcat]

The DNR would almost NEVER give up access to state land through private land. Once they have an easement they sure aren't going to give it up. Why would they do that? They need to be able to access the land in order to manage it. Now, the access route very often will NOT be for PUBLIC access, but only for DNR employees while conducting state business.

[mack2255]

OK I bit the bullet and bought thr Rayonier genral pass for 65 bucks. The meat is way to important to me and I don't need to argue with some forestry patrol *censored* about some pass. I don't like it but what else can we do. I guess it has come down to pay and play. If I did my math right Rayonier made just over 80k in fees for the Dicky unit. Plus another 65k in genral passes for all the Rayonier land. I can only hope they use the money to help the herds grow and recover year to year.... Thanks Rayonier

[GameHunter1959]

The DNR would almost NEVER give up access to state land through private land. Once they have an easement they sure aren't going to give it up. Why would they do that? They need to be able to access the land in order to manage it. Now, the access route very often will NOT be for PUBLIC access, but only for DNR employees while conducting state business.

 

Hate to say your wrong, but you are. I will give you a specific location to prove it.

GMU 145 Mayview
Deadman Creek Road

State DNR property land locked by private land leased out to Deadman Creek Outfitters. There is an abandoned access road to the DNR property off Deadman Creek Road. If you drive to the start of the road, Deadman Creek Outfitters has a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, that says "Private Road Deadman Creek Outfitters" "No Hunting or Trespassing". The road is the only access road to the DNR property. I met James Earl (DNR Manager) in person and inquired if the access road was "TRUTHFULLY" property of Deadman Creek Outfitters, or a state managed access road to the DNR. James Earl looked it up. It was property of the DNR and abandon a few years ago. It is now the responsibility of the private land owners to maintain the road.

Further; go on to the WSDFW Interactive Hunt Map. You can filter search all DNR abandon roads for the GMU you are researching. They even have the word "ABANDON ROAD" under the DNR legend. Take a look...

[GameHunter1959]

In regards to public access not being given to the public. Not true; you can get a copy of the land access agreement from the DNR Manager. Only if it exists. If no agreement is on file; you can have the DNR Manager contact the private land owner to gain access for you. You may or may not get access. It is all up to the private land owner.

I am probably not the person that anyone wants to argue with. I have been working with the DNR Manager every week since June 24th. I have spent countless hours in their office asking questions, and trying to take advantage of land locked property. Most would not go to the extreme that I have. If you make the effort, the DNR Manager can get you where you want to go. Most are not going to make the effort that I have.

[bobcat]

I'm familiar with that area. Are you talking about Breakdown Road? If not, which road are you talking about? I think you're a little confused on terms. The word "abandoned" is generally used for forest roads which are just not being maintained. These would actually be located on DNR land. This is what the term "abandoned" is referring to on the WDFW map.

I think the road you're referring to may have been a county road that the county "vacated." I'm betting the section of DNR land still has legal access for DNR employees, just not for the public, because there is no longer a county right of way. If the DNR truly does not have access, well, that would be a very unusual situation. The DNR would not voluntarily give up access to DNR land.

[bobcat]

In regards to public access not being given to the public. Not true; you can get a copy of the land access agreement from the DNR Manager. Only if it exists. If no agreement is on file; you can have the DNR Manager contact the private land owner to gain access for you. You may or may not get access. It is all up to the private land owner.

I am probably not the person that anyone wants to argue with. I have been working with the DNR Manager every week since June 24th. I have spent countless hours in their office asking questions, and trying to take advantage of land locked property. Most would not go to the extreme that I have. If you make the effort, the DNR Manager can get you where you want to go. Most are not going to make the effort that I have.

You don't need to go through the DNR to gain access to state land. What you need, is a public road in order to get to that state land without having to trespass on private property. Most easements that the DNR has across private land specifically state that the easement is not to be used for public access. So generally, if you're trying to gain access to landlocked state land, you need to be talking to the private land owner, not a DNR employee.

Not trying to argue, just don't want others to get the impression that talking to someone at the DNR will get you access to landlocked state land. The only way to get access is by asking the private land owner for permission to cross his property.

[GameHunter1959]

I don't know the name of the road, as there is no sign. I'm guessing Deadman or the DNR removed it, because they don't want anyone up there hunting. I have him GPS coordinates and he looked it up on his computer. He said the road has been abandon by the DNR, and turned over to the 2 private land owners surrounding the property. He said the DNR don't even go up there. I was told I could take my chances and drive up the road. If caught; I would have to buy the easement from the private land owners to win my court case. Needless to say; I did not waste my time trying to gain access. Plenty of land elsewhere to hunt.

[GameHunter1959]

In regards to public access not being given to the public. Not true; you can get a copy of the land access agreement from the DNR Manager. Only if it exists. If no agreement is on file; you can have the DNR Manager contact the private land owner to gain access for you. You may or may not get access. It is all up to the private land owner.

I am probably not the person that anyone wants to argue with. I have been working with the DNR Manager every week since June 24th. I have spent countless hours in their office asking questions, and trying to take advantage of land locked property. Most would not go to the extreme that I have. If you make the effort, the DNR Manager can get you where you want to go. Most are not going to make the effort that I have.

You don't need to go through the DNR to gain access to state land. What you need, is a public road in order to get to that state land without having to trespass on private property. Most easements that the DNR has across private land specifically state that the easement is not to be used for public access. So generally, if you're trying to gain access to landlocked state land, you need to be talking to the private land owner, not a DNR employee.

Not trying to argue, just don't want others to get the impression that talking to someone at the DNR will get you access to landlocked state land. The only way to get access is by asking the private land owner for permission to cross his property.

Agreed, but as I stated earlier. I contacted them because I wanted to know if the 4x8 sheet of plywood was truth or BS by Deadman to keep people from going up there. I knew what the answer was going to be if I contacted Deadman. They would have told me, not to go up there. Obviously; they have a sign at the road entrance. The Deadman folks are pretty protective of their leased land. They have a reputation of self entitlement issues, in regards to the available hunt areas surrounding there property.

[GameHunter1959]

In regards to public access not being given to the public. Not true; you can get a copy of the land access agreement from the DNR Manager. Only if it exists. If no agreement is on file; you can have the DNR Manager contact the private land owner to gain access for you. You may or may not get access. It is all up to the private land owner.

I am probably not the person that anyone wants to argue with. I have been working with the DNR Manager every week since June 24th. I have spent countless hours in their office asking questions, and trying to take advantage of land locked property. Most would not go to the extreme that I have. If you make the effort, the DNR Manager can get you where you want to go. Most are not going to make the effort that I have.

You don't need to go through the DNR to gain access to state land. What you need, is a public road in order to get to that state land without having to trespass on private property. Most easements that the DNR has across private land specifically state that the easement is not to be used for public access. So generally, if you're trying to gain access to landlocked state land, you need to be talking to the private land owner, not a DNR employee.

Not trying to argue, just don't want others to get the impression that talking to someone at the DNR will get you access to landlocked state land. The only way to get access is by asking the private land owner for permission to cross his property.

Correct..you don't NEED to go to the DNR, but I did because a DNR Manager asking for access from the private landowner holds more weight than just myself asking. I was able to secure 2 new hunting spots because the DNR helped me. Just saying; they will help you if you put in the effort.

[Special T]

Tons of state land that is landlocked behind private timber company land. The only way for the public to get access is for the DNR to get easements across the private land, and that's not going to happen because the state doesn't have enough money to pay what the timber companies would want. And, it's not really a priority for the DNR. They have easements across all that private ground for their own use, the easements just aren't for the general  public to use. And that's the way the timber companies like it.

And it's not just state land. Lots of federal land, especially BLM is landlocked (no legal public access).

Is there any way to flex some muscles here? If they want access across fed or state land for loggiing then what about some kind of access for the public... perhaps not to the private land but at least to get to the public land?