Cat Hunting in Special Permit Area's

[WACATHUNTER]

I definitly think that we need to leave the hound hunting quota alone, those quota numbers and probably alot more need to be taken everyear.  I think a couple cat qouta for "boots" would be pretty suffuicient.  Any members have a permit this seaon???
WACAT

[rougheye]

Just got back . Only got 1/4 of a mile and i ran into a fresh cougar track , followed it up mthe road and .   .    someone was already on him . Drove theloop and just some deer and 1 coyote track .

[Machias]

Gentlemen, they count all cats harvested from 1 Sep to 1 Dec against the quota.  The harvest for hound hunters two years ago was over a couple days after Christmas, last year the first week of Jan it was over.  This year they cut the quota in HALF.  I would imagine it's pretty close to being over already.  You guys talk about how nice it would be to hunt out your back door.  Even when drawn the last two years it was a two hour drive for me to get north and into the good cat areas.  Last year boot hunters killed two females in the permit area after 1 Dec, those females came out of our quota.  You guys have LOTS of opportunities right now all the way into March.  I don't get to run my dogs this year in WA.     You have massive areas in the state to go tracking and or calling.  I'm not trying to start a pissing match with you guys but I'm sorry, backlash...backlash?  That right there is funny.  You think the hound hunters have ANY say what so ever on areas and seasons or quotas or ANYTHING.  Backlash...that *censored* is funny right there.   

[Ridgeratt]

Machias I do agree with you that we have some great cat hunting 2 hours north! But when you look at what was the original proposal of a 3 year trial period that was penned by senator Morton and Gump. This was also supported by the houndmen as they didn't need any Nimrods in the woods while they were running hounds so there dogs wouldn't get shot. I have talked to the WSU people that were tracking the cats in GMU 105 and 101. I'm not sure that I would make that much effect on you. First of all as I go call blind the chance of me calling in a cat is like winning the Lotto! Yes there maybe one in the area that may respond. But having several hound friends they say that my best chance is to drive the roads after a fresh snow like yourself and when you cut a track dog it! Most likely the cat won't go far before treeing. This was a senate bill to offset the depredation of the farmers livestock.do a google search of SB 6118 year 2004. it has bee extended for at least 1 year. I do like the fact I can hunt from my back yard where I do know the area. Why should I have to go to an area I don't know the lay of land. After thanksgiving while I was out killing Christmas trees for the wife I had the oppertunity to have a pack of hounds come trotting through the clear cut I was in. I knew the differance. Not a single one looked like a cougar!!

[billythekidrock]

Backlash...that *censored* is funny right there.   

You cut people out of a season you make no friends. Hound hunters have it hard enough and I am just saying that by them lobbying or helping boot hunters would go a long way in repairing bad ties.

[Machias]

WE didn't cut ANYONE out of ANYTHING!!  Sheesh, listen to what I'm saying WE did not make these rules.  It has nothing to do with us wanting the few guys that call or track out of the woods.  I don't have any problem with you being out there, but were talking about three weeks that your not allowed to harvest a cat.  Hound Hunters had zero say in who would be allowed to participate.  The main reason they did this was because we have to call in each day before we go hunt to see if the quota has been met.  Once the female quota has been taken, the harvest is closed.  The harvest will be closed to ALL of us in those units any day now.  Right now the quota stands at Chelan 1 female or 3 toms left, Okanogan 2 females or 6 cats left, Stevens/Pend O 3 females or 7 total cats.  It ain't going to be open much longer for any of us.

So do you approach bowhunters or muzzleloaders with the same request?  There are all kinds of seasons set aside for one type of user group that excludes another user group.  Hell I didn't get to late deer hunt out of my back yard either, I had to drive up north to hunt deer.  How is that any different then what is going on right now?  Spring bear, the whole state is not open,, it's a draw type hunt, how is that any different.  Personally I could care less if you were allowed to lion hunt in the units open to hounds, as long as you called in everyday to see if the quota was still open, but at the same time I don't feel a bit sorry that those areas are closed, you have the whole rest of the state open, for EIGHT months out of the year and your complaining because you can't try to harvest a cat for three weeks in 6 counties?   

[buck470]

Something about us ALL being hunters? Sticking together, united we stand, divided we fall?

[Machias]

You mean like when all the hunters of this state stood together in the fight to keep hound hunting for lions, bears and bobcats,  or bear baiting, or trapping.  You mean united like that?

[turnloose]

  :
          Hound guys hardly have any area to hunt. Boot hunters can walk any where they please. Give me a break!

[WAcoyotehunter]

You mean like when all the hunters of this state stood togehter in the fight to keep hound hunting for lions, bears and bobcats,  or bear baiting, or trapping.  You mean united like that?

Well played sir.  Hound hunters are the 'step children' in hunting and got almost no support when the time came to make laws against it. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

last year boot hunters killed almost the same # of cats as hound guys.  It's not easy feeding and working with those dogs all year...particularly when you have an outside chance of getting to hunt.

[provider]

Machias, you personally may not have lobbied for exclusive opportunity for houndsman, but the fact is, the hound special interest is who helped draft, proposed, and successfully lobbied for exclusive allocation.  You may not have a problem with sharing opportunity with “boot hunters”, but many of your fellow users did/do.

My understanding was that the requirement of owning hounds to eligible for applying for the permits was being dropped (I thought this year), but apparently not until next year?  Do you know anything more on this?  But in any case, I do not feel the boot hunters should be excluded in those counties during that time of year.  That method of hunting really needs the conditions associated with that season timing.

This issue has come up many times over the years, and when it does, I hope you know that I am not attacking you.  I think you are sincere and a very reasonable person from what I’ve read.  I am just not happy with the opportunity being taken away from the boot hunters, and given to the houndsman.  I don’t blame you guys for enjoying it, know it’s unrealistic to expect you to lobby to change it back, but this type of exclusive allocation is unfair and drives a wedge between us.

[Machias]

"My understanding was that the requirement of owning hounds to eligible for applying for the permits was being dropped (I thought this year), but apparently not until next year?  Do you know anything more on this?"  No sir, I haven't heard anything on this.  If it does pass I hope all, every last one of the houndsmen of this state do not take anyone out.  I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you get drawn and don't own any hounds I guess you'll be expecting a houndsmen, who has spent several thousand dollars on his dogs, tracking equipment, shock collars etc... to take you out, tree your cat so you can walk up and shoot it.  Is that right?  As a hound "handler" I'll only be able to go when you can go because I can't be out there without the permittee.  You live in Seattle, how often are you going to come and hunt Stevens/Pend Orielle counties next winter?  Also you have to drive what 5-6 hours to hunt cats over here if it was open to boot hunters?  That is about the same amount of time you have to drive to get to the Blues, which currently has excellent calling and tracking snow and is currently open to boot hunters.  Hey guess what, I'm a boot hunter this year as well, no hound hunter permit for me.

I'm not attacking anyone either. 

Your best guess, how many guys are being excluded from hunting those 6 counties?  Remember this is during a three weekish period.  We might be talking 25 guys for a total of say roughly 6 days each, maybe, if they hunted every weekend.  So for a few days you have 6 counties you can't go play in for lions, right?

"exclusive allocation is unfair and drives a wedge between us."  There is already a wedge between us.  So do you call your bowhunting friends and tell them to lobby that gun hunters be allowed to chase elk and deer during archery only seasons?  How is that houndsmen must be the ones to step forward and allow you to hunt during our season in our GMUs.  You guys lobbying the bowhunters, the muzzleloaders, the falconers??

[WAcoyotehunter]

Machias, you personally may not have lobbied for exclusive opportunity for houndsman, but the fact is, the hound special interest is who helped draft, proposed, and successfully lobbied for exclusive allocation.  You may not have a problem with sharing opportunity with “boot hunters”, but many of your fellow users did/do.

My understanding was that the requirement of owning hounds to eligible for applying for the permits was being dropped (I thought this year), but apparently not until next year?  Do you know anything more on this?  But in any case, I do not feel the boot hunters should be excluded in those counties during that time of year.  That method of hunting really needs the conditions associated with that season timing.

This issue has come up many times over the years, and when it does, I hope you know that I am not attacking you.  I think you are sincere and a very reasonable person from what I’ve read.  I am just not happy with the opportunity being taken away from the boot hunters, and given to the houndsman.  I don’t blame you guys for enjoying it, know it’s unrealistic to expect you to lobby to change it back, but this type of exclusive allocation is unfair and drives a wedge between us.

   There are too few permits for the hound guys as it is.. The last thing they need is a boot hunter w/VERY low success rates pulling a tag and eating it.  Let someone use it for training thier dogs!!!!!  Go anywhere else to boot hunt for the longtails!  MOST of the state is open to that!

[WACATHUNTER]

Well Jackelope was right, I really got something going here.  I understand that everyone has their opinion and stance on such things.  I just want to clarify my stance since i got this topic going.  The intent was never to divide hunting types and/or take away from one another.  I was just saying that it would be nice if we could all hunt the same areas without placing a negative effect on either groups, i.e. affecting permit quoutas or eliminating hound hunters chances of drawing, by a non-hound owner occupying a tag.  Good luck to all!!!
WACAT