Scattering Elk Herds before the Hunt

[cjjcb]

So I've been hearing this camp story about WDFW or some other group using dynamite to disperse the Rimrock elk herds before the modern hunt.  My initial reaction is to call BS, but the story keeps popping up. Any merit to this tale?  Thanks!

[BOWHUNTER45]

I hear this crap all the time too ...Not saying it is not happening but you never know 

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

I heard they use hellicoppters in the colockum to scatter the elk?

[92xj]

I heard some insanely loud booms in the area during archery season. Like louder than anything I've ever heard in the woods. First thing that came to mind was avalanche control, but being early September ruled that out.

[carlyoungs]

I heard they did that in the untanuem like 10years ago with helicopters. They were down low and a heli came in at dark and they all split up. Don't know if it's true or not but I heard it from several people.

[runamuk]

all deer season there is the hunting with howitzer going on, add in the guys who grow bored with hunting and start shooting, there are always helicopters and small planes flying over (apparently LEO agencies use the skies to catch bad guys)  I cant say if its a conspiracy but it is all very common this time of year in the colcokum teanaway and that wenas lt murray etc essentially the hills surrounding this eburg valley.

[boneaddict]

I've witnessed them do it in the spring, but not now.

[quadrafire]

I hear that same story over here about chasing the elk back onto Turnbull from the private land. I don't believe it as they say they want to trim that herd

[runamuk]

I've witnessed them do it in the spring, but not now.

what I have been told about those spring hazings is its to do bull counts except they start doing them as the antler drop has begun so is kinda ineffective 

[Gringo31]

I've seen this before around Elk Heights 15 years ago...

Helicopter hazing

[Landowner]

I've asked WDFW local biologists and enforcement about this issue in the past.  They get downright offended by any suggestion they have scattered herds before the modern season. 

[kevinlisa06]

I chatted with a guy 3-4 years ago that said he watched the helicopter scatter the elk herd in the Umtanum right before season.


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[huntnnw]

The Spokane rez does this in the huck unit

[Buzz2401]

All I know is that they don't do that in the rimrock unit

[billythekidrock]

Several times I have seen the helicopters buzz the elk along the Quinault river the day before the season starts. Supposedly they are counting redds.

[rtspring]

Years ago they did use helicopters around hanford to chase elk off private land..  We were hunting one morning on private land and they ran a herd of about 60 right through where 7 of us were posted up in a big draw. We got 6 elk out of 7 hunters..  The 7th guy was a bad shot..

Probably 25 years ago.. 

One of the elk that was shot jumped the fence into Hanford and my buddy jumped the fence and went after the elk!  Don't ever do that!! Trust me he had a bad day within minutes.  He got his bull after about four hours of testing and the security force helping him put it down for good..

[BAR C3]

The Spokane rez does this in the huck unit

Where did you hear that? Did you see it?

I can say I've witnessed it on the Olympic National Park by rangers and the game department. Not with helicopters and planes though. They shoot in air and honk to scare them back in park. Wrote an editorial about it in Peninsula Daily News in the 90's on it. As well as reported it to ONP head Ranger and they denied it. Made sure to mention that in editorial.

[nw_bowhunter]

I heard they use hellicoppters in the colockum to scatter the elk?

I have seen this several times during early archery up by the reserve fence line. no doubt in mind what they were doing.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Back in the late 80's or early 90s, Alaska fish and game was busting up a big herd with airplanes on Afognak Is., near Kodiak, and ran a small herd off a cliff. When it was first reported ADF&G claimed they had no knowledge of how it may have happened and claimed it was either a freak accident or they were chased by hunters. But then hunters who were in the area and after elk from the big herd reported a plane chasing the elk and I believe had the numbers off the plane which was linked back to Fish and Game.

Here is the early explanation by Fish and game I found online.......

"On Alaska’s Afognak Island in the October 1986, approximately 45 elk plunged over a 300-foot sheer cliff, landed in a chute and tumbled or slid to the beach. Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADFG) Wildlife Biologist, Larry VanDeele, examined the tangled mass of dead elk at the bottom of the cliff, and told the Roundup, "The best we can tell, it was hunter related." The report states the elk were seen on the cliff on about the day of the fall, there were numerous hunters in the area, some who put a "pincer" movement on the elk which culminated near the cliff when a barrage of two dozen or more shots were fired. The report concludes, "Without an actual eye-witness to the event, it cannot be positively stated that the accident did not occur earlier or in different circumstances than those described." VanDeele explains, "The only real predators on the island are humans. There are Kodiak brown bears there, but they’re not actively aggressive like grizzly bears. There are no wolves or coyotes on the island."

And here's a second report that mentions a possible airplane.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1986/Biologists-Try-To-Explain-Elk-Herd-s-Mysterious-Fall/id-6be1489da386636d7e8ca75598ce3707

[cjjcb]

All I know is that they don't do that in the rimrock unit

Hey Buzz2401,  How can you be so sure?


I'm surprised with all the responses.  Makes me think it's possible or at least they use to...

[PolarBear]

We have seen them at Matheny chasing elk into the park the day before archery season and again for modern rifle.  Have also seen it at St Helens off the 99 road chasing them back into the park.

[D-Rock425]

One big giant conspiracy i hear about wdfw doing this every single year.

[Bob33]

A helicopter flies over elk herd, and the elk scatter. Those are observable facts.

Without additional information, anything more about intent is speculation.

[JimmyHoffa]

We have seen them at Matheny chasing elk into the park the day before archery season and again for modern rifle.  Have also seen it at St Helens off the 99 road chasing them back into the park.

I've seen them do that in Matheny too.  Flying low along Sams River/Queets/Matheny Creek--a small plane and a helo.  There were also guys with mopeds riding behind the gates to get down to the creeks.  You would see the guys on the motorcycles after the helicopter passed.  They had white ford rangers with fed gov plates that they put the motorcyles in the back of.  Said they were out counting fish.

[emac]

I have seen them do it with helicopeters and fire crackers in peola trying to chase them back in the nf.  Last spring they did it and started a fire that really pissed off a landowner.  A couple years ago the did the week before elk season and the cow tag holders were non to happy. I think only a couple cows got shot that year out of 50.

[motg9_6]

probably PETA. 

[bigtex]

A helicopter flies over elk herd, and the elk scatter. Those are observable facts.

Without additional information, anything more about intent is speculation.

I've been hearing the helicopter story forever, and it's always a "black helicopter" oooh scary 

Truth is, anybody from your anti-hunting neighbor to PETA can go up in a helicopter and do whatever they want. And as Bob said, a helicopter flies over an elk herd and the elk scatter and everyone jumps to the conclusion it's WDFW?

Tell me this, do you think the only time helicopters scatter elk is during hunting season? Or is it ok to do it in July, but if it's November it's suddenly WDFW?

I've seen timber companies spray pesticides from planes and helicopters over clearcuts and later in the day it got reported that it was WDFW scaring the elk.

Who wants some cool-aid?

[Blacktail Sniper]

probably PETA. 

Actually, that is not too far outside the realm of possibility. 

One way to find out is to use the Freedom of Information Act. If it is a government agency that is doing this, there was an expenditure of public funds at some, if not all levels.  Be it the lease or rental of aircraft, or the flight time & fuel of a department owned aircraft, it is all public money, and all open to disclosure if requested.

Making a request requires that the agency respond to the request and if they fail, there are actions that can be taken against them.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Who wants some cool-aid?

Can mine be grape please??


 

[Elkrunner]

Everyone has it wrong.  Its the aliens buzzing the herds in their UFO.

[Special T]

probably PETA. 

Actually, that is not too far outside the realm of possibility. 

One way to find out is to use the Freedom of Information Act. If it is a government agency that is doing this, there was an expenditure of public funds at some, if not all levels.  Be it the lease or rental of aircraft, or the flight time & fuel of a department owned aircraft, it is all public money, and all open to disclosure if requested.

Making a request requires that the agency respond to the request and if they fail, there are actions that can be taken against them.

FOIA must be very specific in order to get a responce and cost $50 or something like that...

It is highly likely that it is some one other than the WDFW. 

About 10 years ago Peta got in thier inflatable zodiak and ran around the skagit river delta to protect the ducks from hunters by scaring them away. Unfortunatly for these mental midgets they went out on a calm day and drove through all the resting birds in the slews and refudge. Hunters were gift wrapped with early limits on an otherwise slow day of hunting.

It is my oppinion that whitnessed nefarious actions are likely the result of some bunny hugger operation, OR a private individual hazing animals for some reason.

[woodswalker]

I've asked WDFW local biologists and enforcement about this issue in the past.  They get downright offended by any suggestion they have scattered herds before the modern season.

These are the same bios who are PROUD of making sure hunters dont get a crack at the migrating mulies in the Methow....

[Goldy79]

Hmmm. I've heard quite a bit of large caliber rifle's during archery season in the Rimrock. Bummer somebody is getting noisy for you modern folks but that's life! Best of luck.

[Blacktail Sniper]

probably PETA. 

Actually, that is not too far outside the realm of possibility. 

One way to find out is to use the Freedom of Information Act. If it is a government agency that is doing this, there was an expenditure of public funds at some, if not all levels.  Be it the lease or rental of aircraft, or the flight time & fuel of a department owned aircraft, it is all public money, and all open to disclosure if requested.

Making a request requires that the agency respond to the request and if they fail, there are actions that can be taken against them.

FOIA must be very specific in order to get a responce and cost $50 or something like that...

It is highly likely that it is some one other than the WDFW. 

About 10 years ago Peta got in thier inflatable zodiak and ran around the skagit river delta to protect the ducks from hunters by scaring them away. Unfortunatly for these mental midgets they went out on a calm day and drove through all the resting birds in the slews and refudge. Hunters were gift wrapped with early limits on an otherwise slow day of hunting.

It is my oppinion that whitnessed nefarious actions are likely the result of some bunny hugger operation, OR a private individual hazing animals for some reason.

That is not exactly correct.

Yes , it helps with specific dates, times, people, location, etc. but regardless, all FOIA requests MUST be responded to, in I believe 5 days or so. If not, there are very real monetary penalties that you can get from them for failing to respond.

It may take a little foot work, but for example, a request for any air flights by or for WDFW for example on such & such dates in whatever county, GMU, etc will be a solid starting point.

As for costs, I have not done this for a few years, but the request for the information and their response does not cost any more than a stamp and envelope to mail the request...now, if you want copies of their response, be it one page or 100, then yes, there usually a per page charge.

However, I believe you can request to come in and view the documents for free if you are willing to put in the time, then only pay for any copies you want, if any at all.

[Band]

I've asked WDFW local biologists and enforcement about this issue in the past.  They get downright offended by any suggestion they have scattered herds before the modern season.

I'll go toe to toe with any WDFW employee who claims they haven't done this.  Years ago when I hunted the Bethel unit for modern firearm elk (before it went spike only) they spent a significant amount of time chasing the herd from huntable land to the off limits feeding station land the day before the opener.  The snow was piling up and elk were all over the place.  After the helicopter work they were scarce opening day.  I believe the stories that many of you apparently do not believe because I've seen it first hand.

[Jonathan_S]

I don't doubt the veracity of it happening where big herds abound.

However, some guy tried telling me they do this in the NE     yeah because they have to break up those enormous herds that are so easy to find.