State land logging?

[Fishcrazy82]

So is it only on the east side of the state that the DNR decided to rape the state land?

[Skillet]

Ok, I'll bite. 

Which state-owned land parcel(s) are you referring to?   

[bobcat]

They sell timber here on the west side too. But DNR clearcuts are much smaller in size than Weyerhaeuser and other private timber companies.

[Skillet]

 
And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

[timberfaller]

At least the DNR were the LAST one's that knew how to do it RIGHT.

But even they have succumbed to the PC crowd and Evio-wacko's

I'll try and find my book, put out by the State of WA back in the early 1900's about the vast "renewable resource" they were in charge of and HOW to make it so for generation after generation!   And give the title, you still might be able to find it somewhere.

Loaned it out to a College Prof. and almost didn't get it back He'd never heard of such a thing! Put out by the state that is talking up the Renewable resource!

[grundy53]

They sell timber here on the west side too. But DNR clearcuts are much smaller in size than Weyerhaeuser and other private timber companies.

The DNR cuts in the areas I frequent are actually pretty big. Same size as weyco's if not bigger.

[grundy53]

So is it only on the east side of the state that the DNR decided to rape the state land?

Short answer. Yes. The state is severely strapped for cash. I'm happy they decided to actually make some money on their own as opposed to just taxing us more. Improving habitat while their at it.

[grundy53]

And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

They certainly do spray their cuts.

[bobcat]

DNR does use herbicides, although probably not as much as Weyerhaeuser.

[Skillet]

I stand corrected on the herbicide issue, thanks.   

[Curly]

I imagine there will be more so called "raping" of state land now that that class size initiative has passed.  How else can they possibly reduce class sizes unless there are more schools built? 

To my knowledge, DNR tries very hard to protect wildlife habitat.  I think they do a much better job than most of the private timber companies.

[logger]

The state follows the letter of the law and then some when it comes to habitat, They are in the business to create revenue first and foremost, recreation is a afterthought for the most part. I do think the feds could take a lesson from them in forest management then maybe we could get the national forest back in production of both timber and animals.

[grundy53]

The state follows the letter of the law and then some when it comes to habitat, They are in the business to create revenue first and foremost, recreation is a afterthought for the most part. I do think the feds could take a lesson from them in forest management then maybe we could get the national forest back in production of both timber and animals.

[pianoman9701]

And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

Not true, at least not here on the wetside. One of our members was driving by a DNR clearcut as it was being sprayed by a helicopter.

[pianoman9701]

The state follows the letter of the law and then some when it comes to habitat, They are in the business to create revenue first and foremost, recreation is a afterthought for the most part. I do think the feds could take a lesson from them in forest management then maybe we could get the national forest back in production of both timber and animals.

Letter of the law is pretty interesting when we're talking about herbicides. Because there's almost no oversight on the regulations and because many of the sprayers are unaware of the prohibited combinations, the letter of the law becomes very blurry.

[logger]

I am by far know expert on the herbicide issue, I am just speaking of harvest practices. I can't even seem to get rid of my own weeds!

[_TONY_]

And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

They do spray them...

[dibbs]

Due to internal policies, the DNR generally limits their even-aged harvests to 100 acres, timber companies can go up to 240 acres IIRC.  There are reforestation rules/requirements/timelines, and if there is severe brush competition in an area chemical herbicide applications may be essential to knocking back the brush and getting the young seedlings established. In NE washington the Hancock group does WIDESPREAD aerial herbicide applications after harvests, and generally cuts down to the minimum leave trees required by law. 

I've heard it suggested that herbicide applications may be linked to hoof rot in elk, but I have not seen the data to support this.  I would agree that DNR harvests have changed in the past 10 years from risk tree/selective logging to maximixing volume/value removal with a single stand entry.

 I don't believe that the DNR is harvesting on a sustainable basis, but that is just a gut feeling.  I believe the agency is "liquidating" assets, but am sure they will provide data that supports the harvest levels.  ALSO, harvest levels in areas with large wildfires and total destruction SHOULD drop due to less volume available- but they dont.

[Skillet]

And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

They do spray them...

  Thanks for pointing out I was wrong about this a third time in this thread.  A few more times and I might just learn something.   

[h20hunter]

Your wrong. Do I win a prize?

[chad s.]

I imagine there will be more so called "raping" of state land now that that class size initiative has passed.  How else can they possibly reduce class sizes unless there are more schools built? 

To my knowledge, DNR tries very hard to protect wildlife habitat.  I think they do a much better job than most of the private timber companies.

Do you know what a portable is?

[Skillet]

Your wrong. Do I win a prize?

No.  The prizes go to the person just before and just after you, per the precedent.

[Tbar]

Dibbs (or anyone with knowledge on this) do you think the high rate of harvest has anything to do with land grabs by different conservation groups(eliminating working forests for various reasons)? I also see land grabs by certain municipalities. It also seems that they lose on checker board consolidation with big timber companies.  Do you feel these are contributing to increased harvest (beyond sustainable levels)?

[woodswalker]

Dibbs (or anyone with knowledge on this) do you think the high rate of harvest has anything to do with land grabs by different conservation groups(eliminating working forests for various reasons)? I also see land grabs by certain municipalities. It also seems that they lose on checker board consolidation with big timber companies.  Do you feel these are contributing to increased harvest (beyond sustainable levels)?

Partly, Lots of the groups buying up lands want to take it out of timber production, dont want homes/businesses built on it and want it locked up except for "Special Folks" who would get the available permits.  So after spending 40-70 years growing trees, the timber companies want some return...as the land is being "sold" at bargain basement prices by strongarming and threats of lawsuits by "Conservation Groups" to tie up the harvest....thereby stripping the timber companies of both the timber revenue AND more cash to the attorneys.  Lose-lose deal for them...so take the timber and then sell the land.  OR they sell it BEFORE investing a TON of money in maintaining the land for 20-40 years and losing it after all that but before its harvestable.

[Curly]

I imagine there will be more so called "raping" of state land now that that class size initiative has passed.  How else can they possibly reduce class sizes unless there are more schools built? 

To my knowledge, DNR tries very hard to protect wildlife habitat.  I think they do a much better job than most of the private timber companies.

Do you know what a portable is?

Yes I do. 

A large percentage of school funding comes from timber sales.  I would think that even if portables are used, they will be paying for them with timber sale funds. 

[Ingwe]

In my area State probably sprays more than timber companies.

[Coastal_native]

The state has been cutting about 1/3 of what would be considered sustainable harvest levels by most forest managers...I think we'll be ok.

[Booman2]

I'm shaking my head after reading about the "land grabs" by conservationists. The facts are, Weyerhaeuser is not really a "timber company" anymore. It's a Real Estate Investment Trust and filed tax returns with that status since 2010. It is a publicly traded company with a CEO who answers to a board of directors -and their stock holders. In the past few years, they have spun off a couple lumber related enterprises for more than 3 billion dollars each. Some of their approximately 8 million acres of US land (they control almost twice that in Canada) is for sale and listed by various real estate companies, including Cabella's who sells trophy properties to private buyers worldwide. I expect the other major players such as Plum Creek operate in a similar manner.
WRT the "land grabs" by conservation groups, I have been personally involved with two purchases of private timberland that were in various stages of harvest and which the owners wanted to sell. This could have been to a developer or another buyer. In both cases I have knowledge of, the land was purchased by a group of conservation organizations who wanted to protect it from development and protect habitat for fish and game. In both cases (3 large parcels in various locations) the land agreements insure that the property will be open to outdoor activities by the public, including hunting and fishing. The largest parcel consists of recently clearcut forest land and is (or soon will be) replanted and managed as a working forest that will have timber harvest.
I am almost certain that none of the involved parties were involved with any lawsuits or other adverse legal actions and, in fact, the transfer was a win for both sides.

[fishnfur]

So is it only on the east side of the state that the DNR decided to rape the state land?

So this is how the thread starts.  No information, no specifics, just a random rant.  Stir the pot and see what happens.

How do you end up talking about school class sizes and herbicide spray programs based on this statement?  Perhaps he/she was just complaining about feller-buncher tire marks across the clear-cuts.

Woodswalker - that's a lot of big statements without any substantiation.  I'd love to see some data or proof to justify your arguments about big biz and environmental groups.  I agree conservancy groups are trying to grab up some land, but how can that be a bad thing?  Your kids or grandkids will benefit from having that land out of timber production.  Big game needs old growth too.

Regardless of what the original intent of the thread was, I think DNR is doing a pretty good job in satisfying the monetary needs of the state while being pretty good stewards of our public land.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  If it was me, I would spray the herbicide immediately after the cut is done then   require the replanting take place by the next spring.  I could complain endlessly about the alder plantations which require plantings every six feet, then thinning around year six.  The thinning slash is dangerous to big game animals and leaves those 40 -100 acre cut areas almost unusable to wildlife and hunters for another decade, until the slashed alder melts into the ground.  Regardless, I think DNR is doing a pretty good job on minimal funding.

[GameHunter1959]

And (to the best of my knowledge) they don't spray herbicides in the cuts.  Critical to growth of browse that supports strong deer and elk populations.

They do spray them...

  Thanks for pointing out I was wrong about this a third time in this thread.  A few more times and I might just learn something.   

LOL....oh trust me; 3 times is nothing. The Hunt Wa experts will chastise you for another few pages, until the next member is wrong. Then it is on to the next one. All in good fun.

[bearpaw]

So is it only on the east side of the state that the DNR decided to rape the state land?

So this is how the thread starts.  No information, no specifics, just a random rant.  Stir the pot and see what happens.

How do you end up talking about school class sizes and herbicide spray programs based on this statement?  Perhaps he/she was just complaining about feller-buncher tire marks across the clear-cuts.

Woodswalker - that's a lot of big statements without any substantiation.  I'd love to see some data or proof to justify your arguments about big biz and environmental groups.  I agree conservancy groups are trying to grab up some land, but how can that be a bad thing?  Your kids or grandkids will benefit from having that land out of timber production.  Big game needs old growth too.

Regardless of what the original intent of the thread was, I think DNR is doing a pretty good job in satisfying the monetary needs of the state while being pretty good stewards of our public land.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  If it was me, I would spray the herbicide immediately after the cut is done then   require the replanting take place by the next spring.  I could complain endlessly about the alder plantations which require plantings every six feet, then thinning around year six.  The thinning slash is dangerous to big game animals and leaves those 40 -100 acre cut areas almost unusable to wildlife and hunters for another decade, until the slashed alder melts into the ground.  Regardless, I think DNR is doing a pretty good job on minimal funding.

I agree, of all the entities I see logging their lands, I like the DNR forest practices about the best. Logging benefits a lot of wildlife, but I do hope they keep the herbicide spraying to a minimum.

[csaaphill]

some areas over here could use some selective harvesting.
They planted these pondarosa pines a years ago now you can't walk through without haveing to almost crawl through.
SO ya some selective harvesting would be good.
from what we've found out during the complex and school fire areas that were choked with trees are now pretty open except scrub brush. If they selective harvest then if a fire does break out it doesn't completly clear out the area like it did/does.

[fishnfur]

I could easily be wrong, but I think the DNR is actively managing Eastern WA forests through selective harvests in order to increase spacing between trees to slow the progress of the Mountain Pine Beetle, which has devastated huge pine forests in N. America.  Affected areas ay have been harvested rather than left as standing dead timber.  Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pine_beetle