The Great Lakes Wolf Decision Why Other States Should Be Alarmed

[bearpaw]

"The Great Lakes case was led by the Humane Society of the United States"

As I've said before, all that hate you guys have for WDFW would be better directed towards HSUS. The Michigan DNR has supported wolf hunting for a while now but their opinion has been pushed aside by HSUS over and over and they will do the same when WDFW is willing and able to support it as well.

 I sat and listened to the ignorance being spewed by WDFW during the meetings, my anger is directed right where it deserves to be!

They don't get it all right, and I don't know what you heard at meetings from them, but there is no bigger and more important ally to sportsmen in Washington State than WDFW when it comes to wolf management.  Being our biggest ally and being angry at them are not mutually exclusive. 

WDFW spit in the face of hunters, ranchers, and rural citizens ignoring impacts on game herds, livestock, and rural economies proven in other states and instead siding with wolf propaganda in their management plan and in meetings. It appeared they refused to listen to or consider any info or testimony except from wolf advocates.

I will give WDFW kudos when they have it coming, with this wolf fiasco about half of the WDFW management involved should be fired for gross mismanagement in the face of facts proven about wolves in other states. When the different options for wolf packs were considered for the wolf plan there were no real options, all options were for 15 BP's. It will take a long time for Washingtonians to forget this wolf fiasco. I see no allies regarding wolves in WDFW! Any WDFW allies we may have are afraid to say anything due to reprisal from upper management who are in control of wolf management. 

[bearpaw]

No other state has adopted a wolf plan that requires wolf recovery in all regions of the state before any region can be delisted and/or managed. That issue itself shows the lack of consideration for wolf impacts in eastern WA.

[idahohuntr]

You have to consider the landscape WDFW is dealing with...huge urban liberal population that easily passes initiatives restricting hunting methods, wildlife management tools, gun rights etc.  Given the political constraints they must deal with it is my opinion senior WDFW wildlife staff are being very strategic in how they are pursuing wolf management.  I doubt any of us even see on a daily basis the stuff they are working to be successful in managing wolves in balance with prey species like deer and elk.   

[Coastal_native]

You have to consider the landscape WDFW is dealing with...huge urban liberal population that easily passes initiatives restricting hunting methods, wildlife management tools, gun rights etc.  Given the political constraints they must deal with it is my opinion senior WDFW wildlife staff are being very strategic in how they are pursuing wolf management.  I doubt any of us even see on a daily basis the stuff they are working to be successful in managing wolves in balance with prey species like deer and elk. 

That doesn't sound like management guided by science.  I thought you promised me sound science from WDFW.  I feel betrayed. Not sure I can find it in my heart to forgive you.

[bearpaw]

You have to consider the landscape WDFW is dealing with...huge urban liberal population that easily passes initiatives restricting hunting methods, wildlife management tools, gun rights etc.  Given the political constraints they must deal with it is my opinion senior WDFW wildlife staff are being very strategic in how they are pursuing wolf management.  I doubt any of us even see on a daily basis the stuff they are working to be successful in managing wolves in balance with prey species like deer and elk. 

What on earth are you talking about, there is no wolf management until dozens of livestock are killed and there is no other alternative and definitely no management to keep them in balance with prey species!   

Coastal_native makes his point well!

[AspenBud]

If HSUS parachutes in, pushes a ballot measure against wolf hunting and/or lethal force in protecting livestock from them, is it still WDFW's fault?

Michigan's DNR and the state's Natural Resource Council supported wolf hunting, but HSUS did successfully convince the voters of that state to pass an initiative against it. It had no teeth thanks to the legislature and the governor, but we have no such protections in Washington and if that vote happened today...

Some of the leadership at WDFW may or may not be a problem but changing any of that is really irrelevant once HSUS gets involved.

[bearpaw]

If HSUS parachutes in, pushes a ballot measure against wolf hunting and/or lethal force in protecting livestock from them, is it still WDFW's fault?

Michigan's DNR and the state's Natural Resource Council supported wolf hunting, but HSUS did successfully convince the voters of that state to pass an initiative against it. It had no teeth thanks to the legislature and the governor, but we have no such protections in Washington and if that vote happened today...

Some of the leadership at WDFW may or may not be a problem but changing any of that is really irrelevant once HSUS gets involved.

So far HSUS hasn't done a ballot measure in WA, so far the damage regarding wolves and the insane wolf plan has been done by WDFW supporting the agenda of wolf activists and ignoring rural Washington concerns and science from other states. 

I applaud MI and several other state F&G for attempting to manage wolves. There is nothing to applaud WDFW for regarding wolves! Thus the reason you see no lawsuits yet. If WDFW ever tries to manage wolves then perhaps HSUS will become an issue. But, thus far WDFW is the enemy in WA wolf management. The will not even hire people who are capable enough to find the wolves that are here. The only time wolves get confirmed is when ranchers lose livestock or when public proof of wolves becomes so great it can no longer be ignored.

[AspenBud]

If HSUS parachutes in, pushes a ballot measure against wolf hunting and/or lethal force in protecting livestock from them, is it still WDFW's fault?

Michigan's DNR and the state's Natural Resource Council supported wolf hunting, but HSUS did successfully convince the voters of that state to pass an initiative against it. It had no teeth thanks to the legislature and the governor, but we have no such protections in Washington and if that vote happened today...

Some of the leadership at WDFW may or may not be a problem but changing any of that is really irrelevant once HSUS gets involved.

So far HSUS hasn't done a ballot measure in WA, so far the damage regarding wolves and the insane wolf plan has been done by WDFW supporting the agenda of wolf activists and ignoring rural Washington concerns and science from other states. 

I applaud MI and several other state F&G for attempting to manage wolves. There is nothing to applaud WDFW for regarding wolves! Thus the reason you see no lawsuits yet. If WDFW ever tries to manage wolves then perhaps HSUS will become an issue. But, thus far WDFW is the enemy in WA wolf management. The will not even hire people who are capable enough to find the wolves that are here. The only time wolves get confirmed is when ranchers lose livestock or when public proof of wolves becomes so great it can no longer be ignored.

There is no perhaps, they are already here and they are an issue.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/08/hsus_hswlt_combat_wildlife_poaching_080712.html   <-- look who is one of the backers

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/mar1714a/  <-- look who is coughing up money

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/WAG_MemberRoster.pdf    <--  See Dan Paul, Humane Society of U.S., Washington State Director

https://www.facebook.com/HSUSWashington   <-- key word search wolves

If anything, HSUS is directly influencing WDFW. WDFW is just a pawn they use whenever they can to advance their goals.

[Special T]

Are these two groups not one and the same?

Guess you'll find out when restrictions finally loosen here and HSUS goes to work to stop it. You're not paying attention if you haven't noticed that state agencies' stances for or against wolf hunting don't matter. HSUS can just get a judge to turn everything around for them or push a ballot measure. The DNR's in the lake states have tended to have a favorable view of wolf hunting, you can see how much that mattered once HSUS was done. They are the enemy you should worry about.

Which is why WY has it right, and why Wa NEVER will.  WY understands the "Game" being played. Divided strategies to force large wolf populations onto states. Unlike all the othere states it would appear that WY has a unified front. Citizens, enforcement, state and federal representatives all support pushing back at the Feds infringing on thier states rights. It is because so many other states are divided (within the state) that they cannot force a reasonable plan.

The WDFW has failed to do even even symbolic gestures for sportsmen. Only under pressure have they relented allowing people to protect thier property. It is foolish for the WDFW (or any other agency) to that appeasing these anti hunting groups will some how reduce the departments conflict with these Anti's. The reality is that the department has so few allies in the hunting community BECAUSE of thier failure to support us and thier favortisim tword anti hunting groups.

The only way to fight this back effectivly is to have a state Gov and legislature that is willing to use ALL its influence to stop this insanity. Wa is lost on this issue. Our Federal reps and our Gov are not united on this issue and because of it this issue wont be resolved.

[stromdiddily]

From having a hunting season to federally protected in less than a year. Nice work everyone   

[bearpaw]

If HSUS parachutes in, pushes a ballot measure against wolf hunting and/or lethal force in protecting livestock from them, is it still WDFW's fault?

Michigan's DNR and the state's Natural Resource Council supported wolf hunting, but HSUS did successfully convince the voters of that state to pass an initiative against it. It had no teeth thanks to the legislature and the governor, but we have no such protections in Washington and if that vote happened today...

Some of the leadership at WDFW may or may not be a problem but changing any of that is really irrelevant once HSUS gets involved.

So far HSUS hasn't done a ballot measure in WA, so far the damage regarding wolves and the insane wolf plan has been done by WDFW supporting the agenda of wolf activists and ignoring rural Washington concerns and science from other states. 

I applaud MI and several other state F&G for attempting to manage wolves. There is nothing to applaud WDFW for regarding wolves! Thus the reason you see no lawsuits yet. If WDFW ever tries to manage wolves then perhaps HSUS will become an issue. But, thus far WDFW is the enemy in WA wolf management. The will not even hire people who are capable enough to find the wolves that are here. The only time wolves get confirmed is when ranchers lose livestock or when public proof of wolves becomes so great it can no longer be ignored.

There is no perhaps, they are already here and they are an issue.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/08/hsus_hswlt_combat_wildlife_poaching_080712.html   <-- look who is one of the backers

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/mar1714a/  <-- look who is coughing up money

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/WAG_MemberRoster.pdf    <--  See Dan Paul, Humane Society of U.S., Washington State Director

https://www.facebook.com/HSUSWashington   <-- key word search wolves

If anything, HSUS is directly influencing WDFW. WDFW is just a pawn they use whenever they can to advance their goals.

I didn't say they are not here, they probably have a huge membership base in WA. Currently they are not an issue with wolf management because WDFW has no wolf management.

Are these two groups not one and the same?

Guess you'll find out when restrictions finally loosen here and HSUS goes to work to stop it. You're not paying attention if you haven't noticed that state agencies' stances for or against wolf hunting don't matter. HSUS can just get a judge to turn everything around for them or push a ballot measure. The DNR's in the lake states have tended to have a favorable view of wolf hunting, you can see how much that mattered once HSUS was done. They are the enemy you should worry about.

Which is why WY has it right, and why Wa NEVER will.  WY understands the "Game" being played. Divided strategies to force large wolf populations onto states. Unlike all the othere states it would appear that WY has a unified front. Citizens, enforcement, state and federal representatives all support pushing back at the Feds infringing on thier states rights. It is because so many other states are divided (within the state) that they cannot force a reasonable plan.

The WDFW has failed to do even even symbolic gestures for sportsmen. Only under pressure have they relented allowing people to protect thier property. It is foolish for the WDFW (or any other agency) to that appeasing these anti hunting groups will some how reduce the departments conflict with these Anti's. The reality is that the department has so few allies in the hunting community BECAUSE of thier failure to support us and thier favortisim tword anti hunting groups.

The only way to fight this back effectivly is to have a state Gov and legislature that is willing to use ALL its influence to stop this insanity. Wa is lost on this issue. Our Federal reps and our Gov are not united on this issue and because of it this issue wont be resolved.

  couldn't agree more

[AspenBud]

Are these two groups not one and the same?

Guess you'll find out when restrictions finally loosen here and HSUS goes to work to stop it. You're not paying attention if you haven't noticed that state agencies' stances for or against wolf hunting don't matter. HSUS can just get a judge to turn everything around for them or push a ballot measure. The DNR's in the lake states have tended to have a favorable view of wolf hunting, you can see how much that mattered once HSUS was done. They are the enemy you should worry about.

Which is why WY has it right, and why Wa NEVER will.  WY understands the "Game" being played. Divided strategies to force large wolf populations onto states. Unlike all the othere states it would appear that WY has a unified front. Citizens, enforcement, state and federal representatives all support pushing back at the Feds infringing on thier states rights. It is because so many other states are divided (within the state) that they cannot force a reasonable plan.

The WDFW has failed to do even even symbolic gestures for sportsmen. Only under pressure have they relented allowing people to protect thier property. It is foolish for the WDFW (or any other agency) to that appeasing these anti hunting groups will some how reduce the departments conflict with these Anti's. The reality is that the department has so few allies in the hunting community BECAUSE of thier failure to support us and thier favortisim tword anti hunting groups.

The only way to fight this back effectivly is to have a state Gov and legislature that is willing to use ALL its influence to stop this insanity. Wa is lost on this issue. Our Federal reps and our Gov are not united on this issue and because of it this issue wont be resolved.

The problem is the entire population of Wyoming is smaller than that of King County let alone Washington as a whole. More people, more division.

In 2013 Wyoming had around 143,000 paid license holders. Washington had about 188,000. Or put another way, a quarter of Wyoming's population had a hunting license and only 2% of Washington's did. That is the beginning, middle, and end of the problem.

[Special T]

Well we dont really disagree on that statement much.

[AspenBud]

The thing is, I'm not sure I'd want to hunt in a state like Washington if a quarter of the population hunted. That would be A LOT of people to cram into the woods together. When the state was smaller, that was one thing. But with 7 million people now... no thanks. But I keep seeing everyone having mega families these days so the future is probably before us.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

The problem is the entire population of Wyoming is smaller than that of King County let alone Washington as a whole. More people, more division.

In 2013 Wyoming had around 143,000 paid license holders. Washington had about 188,000. Or put another way, a quarter of Wyoming's population had a hunting license and only 2% of Washington's did. That is the beginning, middle, and end of the problem.

I'd go one step farther than your statement. It's not just how many people Washington has, but where hey live. The bulk of Washington's population lives in large cities, disconnected from wildlife. Meanwhile, Wyoming is still largely rural and therefore more connected to wildlife.