just lost my bear area

[Coastal_native]

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Assimilationist into the United States of America would have been best for all parties. All the reservations and treaties have done is hold the Indian back. With the history of segrigation and poverty on the reservations can you honestly say it wouldn't have been better to just become part of most powerful prosperous nation on Earth as apposed to creating hundred of small impoverished ones where gambling,gill netting and un regulated hunting is legal ? Think Ida wanted to rip he bandaid off fast and be done with back then. But enjoy your treaty ....

I can honestly say that allowing Indians to preserve some semblance of culture through treaties (of which land and resources are at the center) is a better route than assimilation.  The US government obviously agrees, Indians agree, and a large majority of Americans agree.  Maybe its the fact that I don't agree with your depiction of the state of Indian tribes.

[westsidehntr]

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Assimilationist into the United States of America would have been best for all parties. All the reservations and treaties have done is hold the Indian back. With the history of segrigation and poverty on the reservations can you honestly say it wouldn't have been better to just become part of most powerful prosperous nation on Earth as apposed to creating hundred of small impoverished ones where gambling,gill netting and un regulated hunting is legal ? Think Ida wanted to rip he bandaid off fast and be done with back then. But enjoy your treaty ....

I can honestly say that allowing Indians to preserve some semblance of culture through treaties (of which land and resources are at the center) is a better route than assimilation.  The US government obviously agrees, Indians agree, and a large majority of Americans agree.  Maybe its the fact that I don't agree with your depiction of the state of Indian tribes.

Some semblance of culture sure, but the unlimited hunting and fishing is way out of line. I can honestly say lots of Americans would agree with that!

i CA

[X-Force]

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Assimilationist into the United States of America would have been best for all parties. All the reservations and treaties have done is hold the Indian back. With the history of segrigation and poverty on the reservations can you honestly say it wouldn't have been better to just become part of most powerful prosperous nation on Earth as apposed to creating hundred of small impoverished ones where gambling,gill netting and un regulated hunting is legal ? Think Ida wanted to rip he bandaid off fast and be done with back then. But enjoy your treaty ....

I can honestly say that allowing Indians to preserve some semblance of culture through treaties (of which land and resources are at the center) is a better route than assimilation.  The US government obviously agrees, Indians agree, and a large majority of Americans agree.  Maybe its the fact that I don't agree with your depiction of the state of Indian tribes.

I would think that the history of Native American problems since treaty ratification has proven you wrong. I wont and do not need to list them.

Treaties were written because they expedited US exploitation of whatever area the treaty covered, it had nothing to do with what was a better route for Native Peoples.

Assimilation has been the singularly important movement for productive minority populations in the US. Assimilation doesn't mean losing "some semblance of a culture," most assimilated peoples have and partake in culturally significant rituals, foods, and celebrations.

[longwalker]

What does culture have to do with being a part of a nation? Pretty sure when a Mexican becomes an American citisan (rare I know) we don't force them to stop speaking there native language. Duel citisanship is having your cake and eating it too. I'm all for your own nation, get a passport to come In to mine.and aquier land in The same fashion as let's say china would have to within our boarders .

[Coastal_native]

You guys lack a fundamental understanding of what was (and is) very unique about Indian culture...the importance of place.  Take a look at all the various regions and tribes across the country and realize how much the culture embodies the land that they inhabit. 

This is a pointless, never ending debate.  How can I respond to something that isn't even true, e.g. "unlimited hunting and fishing".  That is entirely a false statement.  It's no wonder you can't get more people in this country and this state on your side.

[trophyhunt]

You guys lack a fundamental understanding of what was (and is) very unique about Indian culture...the importance of place.  Take a look at all the various regions and tribes across the country and realize how much the culture embodies the land that they inhabit. 

This is a pointless, never ending debate.  How can I respond to something that isn't even true, e.g. "unlimited hunting and fishing".  That is entirely a false statement.  It's no wonder you can't get more people in this country and this state on your side.

What was unique then (200+ years ago), was unique because it meant feeding your tribe for the winter or gathering things for trade or for use in everyday life.  It isn't necessary for today's life for survival or wealth.  Hell the mucks could eat prime rib every night because of their casino.  So the traditions of old are what you are all proud of but the new traditions like casinos, smoke shops and expensive high quality hunts in certain states are newer traditions you welcome with open arms.  So you get the best of both worlds.  You get to embrace the new and keep the old for old time sake and for some Indians, rub your hunting rights in our face for no other reason but to sell the meat and antlers and to piss us off.  Yes, a few bad apples, but nothing happens to those few that make a living off killing more than their share to spite us.  You don't have to give up your rights to stop natives from over killing, I believe there has to be a way to police your own.  Your right though about this crap never ending, I think it will get worse if us non natives end up having a permit only draw someday in our state. 

[longwalker]

Permit only would actually make things much better all around but that's getting kinda off topic

[trophyhunt]

Permit only would actually make things much better all around but that's getting kinda off topic

Wouldn't you get more frustrated when you couldn't hunt for deer or elk otc in your own state, then to still see the natives hunting just like normal?  I know it's off topic, but just had to ask.

[justyhntr]

 " It isn't necessary for today's life for survival or wealth" , Trophytaker , do you relise that this is the same argument the anti-hunters use on US . The bigger issue is we are loosing hunting area . Period . None of this is going to matter if there is no place to hunt . The Mucks are not the first to close off ground . Crap look at all the land that King County owns that we cannot hunt . 30 years ago I used to hunt out of Cumberland , WDFW took that area away by making it part of the watershed unit and adding it to the permit system . The timber companies are locking us out right and left , how long did it take for Vail to sell out ? How many people that have hunted that area their entire lifes got locked out ? Access to hunting areas is the biggest issue we face in Western Washington .That was my main frustration with loosing my bear hunting area , not who owned it , that didn't matter , the last owner was also limiting land use by charging .

[longwalker]

Permit only would actually make things much better all around but that's getting kinda off topic

Wouldn't you get more frustrated when you couldn't hunt for deer or elk otc in your own state, then to still see the natives hunting just like normal?  I know it's off topic, but just had to ask.

You'd always be able to hunt in your own state . There's lots of examples out there of stAtes with garanteed draws if your a resident .  One, it would create an environment where people actually have to decide where there going to hunt rather than your deer tag being good for high, east, west ,early and late seasons and two it may add more ammo to restrcitng natives hunting "rights" since there would be a state wide all inclusive management plan. The whole things a pipe dream but can you blame me?

[trophyhunt]

Permit only would actually make things much better all around but that's getting kinda off topic

Wouldn't you get more frustrated when you couldn't hunt for deer or elk otc in your own state, then to still see the natives hunting just like normal?  I know it's off topic, but just had to ask.

You'd always be able to hunt in your own state . There's lots of examples out there of stAtes with garanteed draws if your a resident .  One, it would create an environment where people actually have to decide where there going to hunt rather than your deer tag being good for high, east, west ,early and late seasons and two it may add more ammo to restrcitng natives hunting "rights" since there would be a state wide all inclusive management plan. The whole things a pipe dream but can you blame me?

Can't blame you at all, I'd be willing to accept most anything to change the tribes rights of hunting and fishing.  I hope I'm still alive to see the day when we are equal.

[JimmyHoffa]

I have heard they would get half of all the tags--like fish.  WDFW would set an escapement goal for GMUs in ceded areas, then the surplus would be divided in two--state and tribal for harvest.  If the state failed to fill quota, then under foregone opportunity, the tribes could pick up additional harvest.