Baiting: A possible solution?

[bearpaw]

I was talking to Todd_Id on the phone tonight about possible solutions to the baiting issue. We asked ourselves what are some simple baiting rules that the average hunter and guides might be able to live with? Some rules that are simple to understand, easy to follow, and easy for LE to enforce? Here is a possible answer, please offer your comments why these points might work or not work.


ORIGINAL LANGUAGE
A bait site must:
- Be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway, if visible from that roadway
- No less than 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream
- No less than 100 yards from a private residence without owner approval
- Have no more than 6 cubic feet of material placed within a 24 hour period


REVISED OPTION (after input from forum members)
Baiting Restrictions
- Bait placed less than 400 yards from a public roadway cannot be visible from the road
- Bait cannot be placed in a lake, pond, or running stream
- Bait sites cannot have more than 8 cubic feet* of bait placed within a 16 hour period


LATEST REVISION (after more input from forum members)
Baiting Restrictions
 - Bait placed on public land cannot be visible from less than 400 yards of an open public road
 - Bait cannot be placed in a lake, pond, or running stream
 - Bait sites cannot have more than 8 cubic feet* of bait placed any calendar day
 * 8 cubic feet = 59 Gallons = one bale 16"x18"x48"

Hunters on private land are encouraged to place bait out of sight from neighboring homes and passing traffic. Hunters on public land are encouraged to remove stands, blinds, and any remaining bait when hunting season closes.


This topic is meant to find a workable solution. If you are totally opposed to baiting or unwilling to discuss reasonable rules, please do not comment in this topic, start your own topic please. Rants or provoking remarks will be removed! We welcome positive and negative remarks that are constructive. If you have a baiting situation that will not work under any of these rules please explain why and offer a reasonable solution?

[benhuntin]

Visible is gonna be a seasonal thing sometimes. Making it a 1/4 mile is gonna be tough for a person in a wheelchair that would like to hunt/bait a bait setup.

[MtnMuley]

Not to argue, but I don't feel your points would be "simple to understand, easy to follow, and easy for LR to enforce. With in 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream would be the easiest of your points to understand. Would this also include lakes and rivers?  Wouldn't it deter an LE to take action to investigate if he had to make a decision of exactly a 1/4 of a mile is, without extensive map and computer work? What if my neighbor allowed somebody to bait on his property only 50 yds away from my house? I might not want that, but on the other end he might argue the fact it's on his private property and he's doing as he pleases. Another headache imo that is going to make the LE irritated with the clause. Lastly, how would an LE determine 6 cubic feet in the field? If he determines the person has 7 cubic feet, do you think the LE is going to really ticket the guy with all these new implemented rules?

From a guides perspective point, I see your thoughts. Complicated laws tend to get passed under the table these more than a simple "yes" or "no" answer. 

I was talking to Todd_Id on the phone tonight about possible solutions to the baiting issue. We asked ourselves what are some simple baiting rules that the average hunter and guides might be able to live with? Some rules that are simple to understand, easy to follow, and easy for LE to enforce? Here is a possible answer, please offer your comments why these points might work or not work.

A bait site must:
- Be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway, if visible from that roadway
- No less than 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream
- No less than 100 yards from a private residence without owner approval
- Have no more than 6 cubic feet of material placed within a 24 hour period

[grundy53]

I don't understand the reason for the distances.

[Jingles]

If using containers even if it is a feeder not less than 400 yards from the maintained portion of a public road  or right of way and NOT Visible.

Sorry but with the number of Road Kills here in the Methow we sure don't need them being drawn closer to the roads plus why make it easier for the road hunters? ( you know the ones I mean the ones to lazy to get out of the vehicles) .  I personally would prefer not closer than 1/2 mile to a public road or right of way

[bearpaw]

Visible is gonna be a seasonal thing sometimes. Making it a 1/4 mile is gonna be tough for a person in a wheelchair that would like to hunt/bait a bait setup.

If using containers even if it is a feeder not less than 400 yards from the maintained portion of a public road  or right of way and NOT Visible.

Sorry but with the number of Road Kills here in the Methow we sure don't need them being drawn closer to the roads plus why make it easier for the road hunters? ( you know the ones I mean the ones to lazy to get out of the vehicles) .  I personally would prefer not closer than 1/2 mile to a public road or right of way

Thank you for replying, we need input! 

Yes, visible could vary, but visible is very relevant to this issue. You know the old saying "Out of sight, Out of Mind", if baiting is out of sight it won't disturb nearly as many people. Since one of the issues is social acceptance then getting bait out of sight would likely be a good step. We tried to come up with a distance that would lessen the issue of people driving by suburban areas and seeing an obnoxious looking pile of bait, yet be workable in open country areas. Under this rule small landowners close towns where game needs to be harvested could bait by simply keeping their bait out of sight from the road. In Colville where I live deer are a problem, this must be true in western WA as well, cities are constantly faced with how to reduce deer populations, if the rule makes it impossible to bait within 400 yards of any road that would greatly increase the problem of too many deer in suburban areas where deer need hunted.

[bearpaw]

Not to argue, but I don't feel your points would be "simple to understand, easy to follow, and easy for LR to enforce. With in 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream would be the easiest of your points to understand. Would this also include lakes and rivers?  Wouldn't it deter an LE to take action to investigate if he had to make a decision of exactly a 1/4 of a mile is, without extensive map and computer work? What if my neighbor allowed somebody to bait on his property only 50 yds away from my house? I might not want that, but on the other end he might argue the fact it's on his private property and he's doing as he pleases. Another headache imo that is going to make the LE irritated with the clause. Lastly, how would an LE determine 6 cubic feet in the field? If he determines the person has 7 cubic feet, do you think the LE is going to really ticket the guy with all these new implemented rules?

From a guides perspective point, I see your thoughts. Complicated laws tend to get passed under the table these more than a simple "yes" or "no" answer.

Good points! 

Water: Yes, the wording may need a slight change to include lakes, I will offer another suggestion in the first post.

LE: I think if the LE has reason to believe they can proceed. If LE is on a roadway and the rangefinder says 300 yds to a visible bait, pretty cut and dried.

Homes: Trying to eliminate problems from neighboring homes that might have to view ugly bait sites bait from their home. If you feel 100 yards is unworkable then what distance would be better?

Quantity: The key here is "placed within a 24 hour period", this prevents someone from dumping a truckload at one time. If someone is observed unloading a truckload then write a ticket.

I did some research and 6 cf might need to be 8 cf:
A large small bale that might weigh 100ish pounds might measure 16x18x48 = 13824 ci / 1728 = 8 cubic feet
8 cubic feet X 7.48052 gallon = 59.85 Gallons (that fills a 55 Gallon Drum)

[bearpaw]

Visible is gonna be a seasonal thing sometimes. Making it a 1/4 mile is gonna be tough for a person in a wheelchair that would like to hunt/bait a bait setup.

If using containers even if it is a feeder not less than 400 yards from the maintained portion of a public road  or right of way and NOT Visible.

Sorry but with the number of Road Kills here in the Methow we sure don't need them being drawn closer to the roads plus why make it easier for the road hunters? ( you know the ones I mean the ones to lazy to get out of the vehicles) .  I personally would prefer not closer than 1/2 mile to a public road or right of way

Thank you for replying, we need input! 

Yes, visible could vary, but visible is very relevant to this issue. You know the old saying "Out of sight, Out of Mind", if baiting is out of sight it won't disturb nearly as many people. Since one of the issues is social acceptance then getting bait out of sight would likely be a good step. We tried to come up with a distance that would lessen the issue of people driving by suburban areas and seeing an obnoxious looking pile of bait, yet be workable in open country areas. Under this rule small landowners close towns where game needs to be harvested could bait by simply keeping their bait out of sight from the road. In Colville where I live deer are a problem, this must be true in western WA as well, cities are constantly faced with how to reduce deer populations, if the rule makes it impossible to bait within 400 yards of any road that would greatly increase the problem of too many deer in suburban areas where deer need hunted.

Bearpaw
While I see your point about being able to Possibly cull the in town problem deer population  even if baiting was allowed within 100 feet of a road, in this area most all road side property close to where the problem deer are is private and more and more of the property owners are flower sniffing, granola eating, wolf and wild animal loving Subaru driving 60's hippie wannabes

I will use myself as an example, we have a prolific deer population in my neighborhood, I live about 2 miles from the city limits and have three small parcels of land, 2 1/2 acres, 8 acres, and 22 acres. We take 1 to 4 deer off these properties every year and not all, but some other neighbors hunt as well and kill deer. Safety in the neighborhood is a concern, so baits also allow us to control shooting direction when we need to shoot. Under these rules I could hunt any of the three of those properties, so I'm thinking most other small landowners could do the same.

Please offer any language you think might work better?

[Jingles]

I think your 6 or 8 CuFt is quite workable and sufficient heck I know that carrying in 2 back packs full of apples in one day is more than enough exercise for this ole man

Bait sites on public property must be a minimum of 300 yards from the maintained portion a public road or right of way.

That way it gets and keeps the gammies out and off private property and the land owner has the discretion of placing the bait where he wants for either safety or animal viewing opportunities

[bearpaw]

I don't understand the reason for the distances.

A distance provides an accurate measurement for the hunter and for LE.

[Special T]

I think adding rules is a bad idea. i understand where your at and what your thinking. Better rules are still more rules for the bunny huggers.

- No less than 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream
- No less than 100 yards from a private residence without owner approval

I find this wording confusing

Not Closer than... would be better it makes it sound like you must be within 50-100 yards. 

[3dvapor]

  Ive also seen in alaska where you would have to turn in coordinates to fish and game of where your bait spot is.  Then they would verify you were the appropriate distances away.  Also would know who to contact when a mess was made and not cleaned up.

[idahohuntr]

I like it bearpaw!  Great minds think alike  I dusted off Idaho's bear baiting rules and modified them a bit and sent to Nate Pamplin a few months ago proposing nearly identical rules...limitations on location, volume, etc.  I even went so far as to add an option about having to hang a bait tag (like Idaho) which the Department could sell for $10 or something! 

I will be very interested to hear Todd's take of todays commission meeting.  I think if the commission is hell bent on making rules about baiting they ought to have a committee get together and hammer out some reasonable rules...guys with experience baiting and who understand some of the concerns about dumping truckloads of apples etc. 

[mazama]

Keep it away from areas where general public-non hunters,if the odds are low that a non hunter or child will see you killing a animal than you have found a good spot,finding a spot for a archery hunter might be hader because there are more people wandering around in warmer months.

[bearpaw]

I think adding rules is a bad idea. i understand where your at and what your thinking. Better rules are still more rules for the bunny huggers.

- No less than 50 yards from a running or seasonal stream
- No less than 100 yards from a private residence without owner approval

I find this wording confusing

Not Closer than... would be better it makes it sound like you must be within 50-100 yards. 

Sometimes rules are needed for reasonable use of opportunity, I would rather see workable rules created by those who know baiting than rules created by people who may not fully understand baiting.

Perhaps simpler language would be:

- Be at least 50 yards from lakes, ponds, and running or seasonal streams
- Be at least 100 yards from a private residence without owner approval