Baiting: A possible solution?

[grundy53]

My property is 1 acre. I have been baiting deer here for years. The farthest I can put my bait from the road is 80 yards. That puts the bait about 10 yards from a seasonal creek. Your limitations would make it illegal for me to bait on my property. I use apples.

Thank you for posting this info.

Even though I prefer no baiting restrictions, if the commission feels they must regulate baiting to resolve some of the problems I would much rather see rules that do not affect the average hunter negatively. By knowing circumstances like you have detailed, we can advise minimal rules that will have the least impact on the average guy who isn't causing the problems.

After considering your situation and other comments I came up with these simple rules:

OPTION 2 (after input from forum members)

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

I would ask if there are any members who cannot live with these simple rules if the Commission feels they must set some limitations?
Please, constructive comments only!

Could you please explain the reasoning for the buffer near water? Is there a run off concern?

Contamination of water! That is a huge deal everywhere. In all my operating permits in every state there are limitations detailing distances from water for almost any activity. In Idaho they limit how close you can place bait to water. Contamination of salmon streams is the last thing we want to happen, that could cause a serious reaction by government.

I would be ok with no baiting on public land. It is basically littering. No change to private land with the exception of volume restrictions for those doing it commercially.

How is it littering if the bait is biodegradable?

 

How is it going to contaminate the water? Deer bait isn't the same as bear bait. There generally isn't greases and oils. It's plant matter or minerals.

It's not my concern, I'm just trying to offer some reasonable solutions that everyone can live with. Please ask the Dept of Ecology what you can put in salmon streams, or any stream for that matter!

Bearpaw, with all due respect - all of the proximity and public/private rules in the world won't help the commission appease the majority of those that oppose baiting - which you state to be other hunters who don't like it.  I believe the focus needs to be on what those hunters don't like about it, and I tend to believe that as stated earlier in this thread, they feel it results in reduced opportunities for themselves.  A couple of dumptrucks full of apples will move deer off of their normal patterns, no doubt about it.  That's means we should focus on volume alone, not location or land ownership.
 

Water is a serious concern
Visibility is a concern (what's out of sight, is out of mind)
One of the biggest complaints I hear is the dumping of truckloads of bait

If we deal with these issues then the people who still want to complain are just complainers that will never be satisfied.

What about man-made ponds. In my food plots I have built a watering hole.  It is right next to the corn feeder and mineral site.

I don't know! Is your feeder throwing corn in the water, is that even an issue? If it is an issue can you simply move the feeder over a few feet?

Have the people opposed to baiting (other hunters) even brought up water quality? I understand why you are coming up with these options but why limit ourselves further than necessary?
Address the gripe if needed but why go above and beyond that?

[grundy53]

I would be ok with no baiting on public land. It is basically littering. No change to private land with the exception of volume restrictions for those doing it commercially.

How is it littering if the bait is biodegradable?

I have never seen an exception in any littering law saying it is ok to dump stuff if it is biodegradable? It can still make a stinky mess for quite some time.

There is also no exception saying you can litter on private property either. I don't think its's even close to littering. I also don't think we should ban a hunting method on public land that we allow on private land.

Its not littering if I dump an old couch (Or call it a load of horse manure which is biodegradable) on my property. It is littering if I dump it on somebody else's property or public property. After seeing a few bait sites on public land I would most definitely call it littering. I can't go till up a couple acres and plant winter wheat on public land for a food plot, but I can on mine. That is another method that can only be used on private. Owning, leasing, or having access to private ground definitely can have some advantages.

I think you are going to seriously divide hunters even further if you allow it on private but ban it on public.

[jasnt]

Quote from: jasnt on Today at 09:53:27 AM
What about man-made ponds. In my food plots I have built a watering hole.  It is right next to the corn feeder and mineral site.

I don't know! Is your feeder throwing corn in the water, is that even an issue? If it is an issue can you simply move the feeder over a few feet?


It dosent throw. It's just a pile next to the water hole. It is the perfect place for the camera. Food water and minerals all in one spot gives me all the info on one cam. My fear is if this passes and no baiting near water some Leo may say I'm baiting near a pond even tho it is my pond I built(I'm a land scaper by trade). If corn falls in it from their mouths wich happens a lot the corn germanates and floats to the top where it's eaten by the birds

[lokidog]

Have the people opposed to baiting (other hunters) even brought up water quality? I understand why you are coming up with these options but why limit ourselves further than necessary?
Address the gripe if needed but why go above and beyond that?

   Seems like looking for a solution to a problem that has not even been brought up.   

How about this if you need something:

1. Bait quantity (public and private land)- at most, fresh bait + existing left-over bait may not exceed two five gallon buckets in volume, bait piles (set by one person) may not be located closer than, say 30 yards from each other.
2. Bait, if placed on public lands, must not be visible from the road right of way if less than 100 yards from the road right of way.
3. Bait placed on public land must have a visible label with name and contact information of person placing the bait.  Label must be located within twenty feet of bait.

As mentioned, a quantity restriction addresses many of the alleged concerns over baiting:  not enough to drastically alter the natural movement of game, eyesore, pollution to water or land (a smaller amount will likely be eaten more completely, though you'd better keep the deer away from the water afterwards as they might poop....     ).

[bearpaw]

My property is 1 acre. I have been baiting deer here for years. The farthest I can put my bait from the road is 80 yards. That puts the bait about 10 yards from a seasonal creek. Your limitations would make it illegal for me to bait on my property. I use apples.

Thank you for posting this info.

Even though I prefer no baiting restrictions, if the commission feels they must regulate baiting to resolve some of the problems I would much rather see rules that do not affect the average hunter negatively. By knowing circumstances like you have detailed, we can advise minimal rules that will have the least impact on the average guy who isn't causing the problems.

After considering your situation and other comments I came up with these simple rules:

OPTION 2 (after input from forum members)

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

I would ask if there are any members who cannot live with these simple rules if the Commission feels they must set some limitations?
Please, constructive comments only!

Could you please explain the reasoning for the buffer near water? Is there a run off concern?

Contamination of water! That is a huge deal everywhere. In all my operating permits in every state there are limitations detailing distances from water for almost any activity. In Idaho they limit how close you can place bait to water. Contamination of salmon streams is the last thing we want to happen, that could cause a serious reaction by government.

I would be ok with no baiting on public land. It is basically littering. No change to private land with the exception of volume restrictions for those doing it commercially.

How is it littering if the bait is biodegradable?

 

How is it going to contaminate the water? Deer bait isn't the same as bear bait. There generally isn't greases and oils. It's plant matter or minerals.

It's not my concern, I'm just trying to offer some reasonable solutions that everyone can live with. Please ask the Dept of Ecology what you can put in salmon streams, or any stream for that matter!

Bearpaw, with all due respect - all of the proximity and public/private rules in the world won't help the commission appease the majority of those that oppose baiting - which you state to be other hunters who don't like it.  I believe the focus needs to be on what those hunters don't like about it, and I tend to believe that as stated earlier in this thread, they feel it results in reduced opportunities for themselves.  A couple of dumptrucks full of apples will move deer off of their normal patterns, no doubt about it.  That's means we should focus on volume alone, not location or land ownership.
 

Water is a serious concern
Visibility is a concern (what's out of sight, is out of mind)
One of the biggest complaints I hear is the dumping of truckloads of bait

If we deal with these issues then the people who still want to complain are just complainers that will never be satisfied.

What about man-made ponds. In my food plots I have built a watering hole.  It is right next to the corn feeder and mineral site.

I don't know! Is your feeder throwing corn in the water, is that even an issue? If it is an issue can you simply move the feeder over a few feet?

Have the people opposed to baiting (other hunters) even brought up water quality? I understand why you are coming up with these options but why limit ourselves further than necessary?
Address the gripe if needed but why go above and beyond that?

I don't know if water has been a serious issue with hunters who complain about bait.

Below is what Idaho got for baiting rules when the rules were written by government. I am saying we should come up with some less restrictive rules that will work for the most people and agencies, then suggest that if the commission must implement baiting rules that these be the rules they implement. 

It dosent throw. It's just a pile next to the water hole. It is the perfect place for the camera. Food water and minerals all in one spot gives me all the info on one cam. My fear is if this passes and no baiting near water some Leo may say I'm baiting near a pond even tho it is my pond I built(I'm a land scaper by trade). If corn falls in it from their mouths wich happens a lot the corn germanates and floats to the top where it's eaten by the birds

Per the lastest proposed rules (OPTION 2) I can't see why this is an issue if the feeder isn't throwing bait in the water. 

[grundy53]

Idaho's rules are for bear baiting. I don't think there are the same issues with the baits commonly used for deer.

[bearpaw]

Have the people opposed to baiting (other hunters) even brought up water quality? I understand why you are coming up with these options but why limit ourselves further than necessary?
Address the gripe if needed but why go above and beyond that?

   Seems like looking for a solution to a problem that has not even been brought up.   

How about this if you need something:

1. Bait quantity (public and private land)- at most, fresh bait + existing left-over bait may not exceed two five gallon buckets in volume, bait piles (set by one person) may not be located closer than, say 30 yards from each other.
I think enforcement will have a problem with this, are they suppose to carry a rake and have to rake it all up and measure it in two buckets? What if other material gest raked up, do they have to sort through? This must be a rule that is very easy to determine.
2. Bait, if placed on public lands, must not be visible from the road right of way if less than 100 yards from the road right of way.
I'm almost certain most of the biggest complaints are coming from bait placed on private lands.
3. Bait placed on public land must have a visible label with name and contact information of person placing the bait.  Label must be located within twenty feet of bait.
That's just more regulation on hunters, the idea was to offer the least amount of rules, I personally do not want to put my name on a bait for others to see

As mentioned, a quantity restriction addresses many of the alleged concerns over baiting:  not enough to drastically alter the natural movement of game, eyesore, pollution to water or land (a smaller amount will likely be eaten more completely, though you'd better keep the deer away from the water afterwards as they might poop....     ).
Trying to address the biggest concern I've heard, that baiters are dumping truckloads of bait

[bearpaw]

Idaho's rules are for bear baiting. I don't think there are the same issues with the baits commonly used for deer.

Just an example of what we could get if people who are not hunters draft the bait rules. The rules they come up with could be more restrictive than this, think Washington verses Idaho. 

[bearpaw]

Can anyone honestly tell me that these rules are not workable for your hunting?

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, or running stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

I eliminated seasonal stream!

[grundy53]

Well in Idaho you can't bait deer at all. So we probably shouldn't keep using them as an example...

[grundy53]

Can anyone honestly tell me that these rules are not workable for your hunting?

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

That's better. I think we should shorten the quarter mile though.

[bearpaw]

Well in Idaho you can't bait deer at all. So we probably shouldn't keep using them as an example...

 

[bearpaw]

Can anyone honestly tell me that these rules are not workable for your hunting?

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

That's better. I think we should shorten the quarter mile though.

With these rules if your bait is out of site it could be closer. Do you want baits that are visible from the road to be closer to the road?

[grundy53]

Can anyone honestly tell me that these rules are not workable for your hunting?

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

That's better. I think we should shorten the quarter mile though.

With these rules if your bait is out of site it could be closer. Do you want baits that are visible from the road to be closer to the road?

I agree. My only concern would be a LEO claiming they could see it when you know they can't.

[bearpaw]

Can anyone honestly tell me that these rules are not workable for your hunting?

Bait must:
- be at least 1/4 mile from a public maintained roadway if visible from that roadway
- not come in contact with a lake, pond, stream, or seasonal stream
- have no more than 8 cubic feet of material placed within a 16 hour period

That's better. I think we should shorten the quarter mile though.

With these rules if your bait is out of site it could be closer. Do you want baits that are visible from the road to be closer to the road?

I agree. My only concern would be a LEO claiming they could see it when you know they can't.

I would say show me! 

I think more than anything this will encourage baiters to keep their bait out of sight so it's not a public eyesore. Some people simply are not smart enough to do that without being told. 

Baiting probably wouldn't be an issue if guys didn't dump truckloads of bait where it can be seen by others.