Tribes kill elk article posted earlier by others.

[kingsalmonkllr77]

I just got my hands on the tribes kill elk artical that was posted earlier and if that is a true story I am in disbelief that nothing has been done about this.  If you haven't read it I will try to get a copy and type it.  It involves the killing of a large amount of colokum elk from the wenatchee side.  And the killing of elk up top in the wildlife reserve.  Anybody that has any ideas on how to make a big enough scene to the state legislature I think it is time we all get together and do so.  We all end up bowing down to these tribes and being is that there is way more of us than there is of them I think we could make something happen.  With the amount of snow this year and the threat of winter kill on the horizon we are going to see major changes in the upcoming season and this needs to stop now.

[canyoncrosser]

I have been coming to this site for about a year looking at pics and reading comments and really never thought about becoming a member til now. I live in wenatchee and have hunted the colockum all my life (37 yrs old). I have talked with several people and it sounds like this is a federal issue and the state has there hands tide I guess. Too many people are afraid of offending someone else in my opinion. I think its going to have to take people letting other organizations know about whats going on. Maybe contacting SCI, Rocky Mountain Elk, and SFW. I thought even about some of the anti hunter organizations, we could even use there pull, they seem to be a little extreme. I share your pain in this issue.

[bowhuntin]

Are you talking about the article in the reel news? If so there is another thread over in hunting politics where it was being discussed. Here is the link.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,16717.0.html

[kingsalmonkllr77]

I was looking for the original tread but couldn't find it.  I had just read the artical and couldn't figure out where I had seen it before.  And yes that is the one I was looking for and the reason I read the artical. 

[300rum]

It isn't politically correct to play Cowboys and indians anymore.

[muleyguy]

the issue is not as simple as most here make it out to be;  the legal right of indians to take big game animals in "usual and accustomed" areas has been affirmed.  So, you in effect have to come up with other means to try and stop it.  The WDFW cannot make laws forcing indians to comply with its rules and prosecutors are not going to spend limited resources fighting endless legal battles with tribal members who have deeper resources to fight with.

So, in effect, you have to attack it from a PR standpoint (which is probably not going to be that effective) and/or trying to use existing laws to throw up roadblocks to the them (gates, etc).  The first order of business is to FORCE the WDFW to admit in their population surveys, and rule making, the effects of tribal hunting.  This should be achievable because they are a state agency, legally mandated to explain their rule making.  This will probably not achieve much, but, it will at least get some light on the issue.  A coordinated PR campaign with pictures, along with WDFW, MIGHT slow them down, although I doubt it.  The WDFW essentially "covers up" what is going on at this point with tribal hunting.  They do this because they do not want to anger the tribe.  In their eyes, the only way to deal with the tribe is to try and work with them.  In the long run, this strategy will not work because the tribe is interested in expressing their rights to the fullest, not in limiting their members ability to hunt where they want, or in good game management.

The reason the yakama tribal members hunt off of the reservation is that they have essentially ruined big game hunting on the reservation through excess harvesting.  The tribes record with big game management speaks for itself.  The individual tribal members hunting are interested in the same thing as all hunters;  shooting the largest horned animal they can;  to accomplish this goal, they need to go off of the reservation.

Tribal leadership is not interested in proper game management, especially off the reservation, it is only interested in expressing their rights as a tribe to the fullest, to hunt and fish in usual and accustomed places.  In their mind, the tribe should get as many elk as they want first, and then, the non-natives should take what is left.  They believe they come first, and we get the leftovers.

The second way to attack this is through something like gating ,etc.  These are good ideas, and, I believe there are other potential solutions like this that could work.  At the end of the day, these guys are just native slob hunters, no different than non-native slob hunters;  interested in taking the largest antlered animal they can with the least amount of work.  A small amount of "roadblocks" will go a long ways towards stopping some of this. 

To achieve this goal though, the WDFW has to be the leader.  They can get the gating done with all the different agencies;  task forces can be put together to look at other potential ideas, like gating, that could slow this down.

Unfortunately, though, at the end of the day, I see little from the WDFW that would suggest that they are willing to look at any of this in a serious way though.  Maybe, with enough pressure from legislators, you could force the WDFW to do something.  But, stop wasting time with WDFW and start sending your letters to the state legistlators in these hunting areas. 

At the end of the day, Washington state has the largest population base and is the smallest of any western state;  it also has a relatively large amount of indian tribes.  You put all of this together, and, going forward, to keep deer and elk herds healthy in this state is going to require increasingly restrictive regulations, that is just the truth of it.

[heavy hauler]

it seems strange that alot of the natives in wa have emptied there reservations of big game. i dont know many details , but i do know the natives in arizona have managed the elk herds there extremley well.(white pines, san carlos)

[muleyguy]

"it seems strange that alot of the natives in wa have emptied there reservations of big game"

this is especially true of the yakama tribe;  they have some of the best deer and elk habitat in the state;  they have some of the most productive farm lands in the state;  they have some of the most productive forests in the state.  Most of the problems with slob tribal hunting comes from the yakama's.  This is not surprising because if you live in the area, you realize it is one of the most corrupt, poorly managed tribes in the West.  Many tribes were given reservations in areas with poor resources (land, water, timber,agriculture) and thus are truly in a tough position to make their reservations financially stable.

not the case with the Yakama's;  they have been handed a silver platter, and they still manage to screw it up.   The Yakama tribe should be one of the wealthiest tribes in the United States.  They only thing that seems to actually give them some drive is to stick it to the white man, and, that is a sad thing, because at the end of the day they are missing the bigger picture and only hurting themselves.

[heavy hauler]

it kinda reminds me of a person who is born with money.they never learn to work or see no need for a education or learn the value of a dollar.no need to hunt hard, just wait for the feed center in oak creek to open .

[woodswalker]

My own experiences with the Yakima tribes bears much of this out, I see unfettered, irresponsible tribal hunting using methods proscribed for non-tribal hunters.  the Tribal police have NO interest in actually policing their own, as evidenced by the telling me to mind my own business after trying to report a large taking just south of the Satus pass area on the edge of the Res..

I don't have ALL the answers, but i have SEEN Yakimas take only racks from trophy bulls shot in the Manastash unit, leaving the rest of the carcass to rot but for the backstraps and tenderloins.  In fact that is why I bought a digital camera that i carry with me all the time I'm IN the woods.  I shoot photos and file...and do NOT see anything happen.

[boneaddict]

COlville has done well.   I still don't like some of their practices and think it should be the same for all, but they are pretty good managers of their game.  The Yakimas are PITIFUL.  Pheasants are abouthte only thing they have done well by.

[WAcoyotehunter]

COlville has done well.   I still don't like some of their practices and think it should be the same for all, but they are pretty good managers of their game.  The Yakimas are PITIFUL.  Pheasants are abouthte only thing they have done well by.

Except for the TWO elk reintroductions -they killed all the animals in the first, so the WDFW in their gentle kindness gave them another chance.    

[yelp]

And the pathetic North half agreement....That thing is a joke. 

[Gobble Gobble]

The Yakama tribe should be one of the wealthiest tribes in the United States. 

I probably will not hunt the Yakima Res any more as I'm tire paying the $31 a year for the Res permit to hunt upland game and get the Res map for all the "Feel Free to Hunt" land only to go to the fields and find there posted "NO Hunting." There getting the money from the state to make their land FFtH only to turn around pocket the handout and then post No Hunting.

Where is all the money going from the Casino? Isn't it supposed to go back to the Tribe members? You get out of town (Granger, Toppenish, White Swan) and all you see is run down single wides with blankets in the windows.

[huntnphool]

  Welcome to the site Canyoncrosser, its a shame it took a thread like this to get you post but at least your a member now

 Its going to come down to someone confronting one of them over a dead animal and I fear someone getting killed. I think at that point something may be done but intil then its just not that big a deal.

[firefighter4607]

Where is all the money going from the Casino? Isn't it supposed to go back to the Tribe members? You get out of town (Granger, Toppenish, White Swan) and all you see is run down single wides with blankets in the windows.
[/quote]

First off why are you paying the indians to hunt? I would think that since their big game has been shot to nothing, so would there birds.

Second the tribes do get money they just spend it on beer,drugs and new cars! They wait for the government to buy them homes and then they treat them like *censored* and don't do the upkeep to them. If you drive through Toppenish to get to I-84 once you get to an old run down rail yard with a gain elevator you will see a ton of homes on the east side of the road that look run down and like junk, those homes where build by our government in the early 1990's like 92-93, they are for the Yakama tribe to live in. That is also true to other homes though out the res.

[alanger]

Well if you say someting to the state and take it as a federal issue they are gunna say oh your just racist, oh man your just picking on us again like you did to my ancesstors. that ain't cool dude. now wheres my money i need to go to the casino. i want a new assault rifle to go shoot the whitemans animals oh. i dont wanna hunt on the land they gave me i can do whatever i want. oh yeah dude i shot 30 elk yesterday look i even lined their heads up and left the meat on the side o the road to rott.

well this is what they do and what they will continue to do. i did not make this to say something racist or offensive. its jsut the way it is until it stops. It's up to all of us who care to make a difference or it will never happen.

think about what u can do. brainstorm it.

[Gobble Gobble]

firefighter

First off why are you paying the indians to hunt? I would think that since their big game has been shot to nothing, so would there birds.
 

2008 was my first year big game hunting before that all I had done was Turkey and upland game. There are lots of birds to be had on the Rez. Now that I am a member of this site and I know more about what is going on I will no longer give them my money and will look for other places to do my upland hunting. Until now I had only had a negative thought towards the Natives when it came to fishing and the use of nets. Now I know more thanks to this site I dislike the long leash or lack there of the government has on them when it comes to rules and treaty rights.

If you ask me and it will probably open up another can of pissed off worms but the natives could be one in the same as the illegals from south of the boarder getting all the good treatment from the government handouts to where there is no need to work or better themselves.

[colockumelk]

This may be somewhat long but please bear with me and read the whole thing.  We need to stand together against the slaughter of elk and deer by Indian hunters and this will be the first step in that process.  It is obvious that many of you share my beliefs that something needs to be done to stop the decimation of the Colockum bull population by the Yakama Indian Tribe.  It is obvious that the game department either doesn't care or is to afraid to do anything about it.  Either way it is time that somebody put a stop to this and did the game departments job for them. 

This is what I propose.  I'm sure many of you have written letters that have drawn little if any response from the game department.  As individuals we can not hope to get anything done.  But as a group that works as a team towards a common goal we can do anything.  As an individual we are limited by our many flaws, but as a team there isn't anything we can't accomplish.  If we get enough people to participate they'll have to do something.  The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation was started by a few hunters twenty some years ago and look how much they've accomplished.

This is what we need to do.  We need to begin an activist group much like RMEF or Green Peace to begin to work towards making Indian hunters abide by the same rules and regulations that we do.  I was born in America so how am I any less of a Native American than an Indian is?  Currently we as Non-Indian hunters are second class citizens. Non of the other Western states allow their Indian tribes to hunt all year round killing as many animals as they want to outside of their reservations so why should Washington be different? 

We need to band together and start having meetings and raise money and find lawyers and collect our own evidence about how unfair and stupid this practise is so we can bring it to our state legislature.  We need to start a petition around here and maybe even state wide to show how serious we really are and that it's time to stop.  Right now they blame it on poachers or even us (we kill too many spikes) but if they are faced with overwhelming evidence that only you as outdoorsmen who are out there all the time, then they'll have to listen.  Imagine if they tried to say we're a bunch of ignorant people and then we show them a bunch of pics using game cameras of truck loads of dead elk driven by Indians coming out of the Colockum.  We also need to see if groups like RMEF and Mule Deer Forever etc will help out as well since they've done this sort of thing before.

I know I spoke mostly about the Colockum but Yakima hunters need to band with us together as well since they Yakama's do the same thing to your herds.  This message is sort of a feeler message to find out if any of you are interested in starting a group with a President, Vice President, Treasurer, and Secretary etc.  The whole nine yards.  We can't go half way, we're either all in or not at all. 

I've started an email address for this purpose.  Its' colockumelk@yahoo.com
If you have any comments or ideas or if you would like to start a group with me that would be great.  If you know community organizers or key leaders this would also be great.  I'd like to begin having meetings no later than March.  Obviously the sooner the better.  Also if you have any pics of Indians with big bulls or elk etc, or what would be great is if we could get people to start putting their game cameras higher up in some trees just off of the roads so we can get some good pics of truck loads of dead elk and deer in the back of their vehicles.  The game department might be unwilling but we're not.  Enough is enough.  If you want to help out please email me back lets set up a group meeting to finally put an end to the insanity that it unlimited tribal hunting. 

Hunters
Against
Unlimited hunting by
Native
Tribes

[alanger]

Spread the word everyone !!!

[firefighter4607]

2008 was my first year big game hunting before that all I had done was Turkey and upland game. There are lots of birds to be had on the Rez.

That's interesting to know, I had no idea that they had alot of birds.

Clockumelk this is a great idea. I would like to be part of it.

[colockumelk]

Does anyone know how to get ahold of this John Fulwiler guy?  I've been trying to find him.  I think he would be interrested in our group and would also have alot of good info to help us out. 

[RUTNBULL1]

Colockumelk, this is a great idea! The tribes have been taking uneccessary elk all over the state, The Yakama's are and have been devastating our S.W. Washington Elk and Deer herds for over 20 years and I'm sure I can get alot of people in the local area on board with this idea. 

[colockumelk]

Mossback that would be awsome.  I'm assuming most wouldn't want to make the drive all the way to E-Burg or Yakima but what you could help out is when we start passing flyers out and start our petition drive obviously I can't drive all the way around the state and do it myself.  We will need volunteers that live in the corners of the state to do this.  To put up flyers and pettitions in gun stores and archery shops etc. Also we're using this website as a base to spread the word.  Obviously 3000 members on here is a drop in the bucket of the 190,000 hunters in WA.  But it's a good base to spread the word.   I'll let you know when our website goes hot.  Should be at the end of the week.  Thanks for your support.   

[ponyboy156]

it seems strange that alot of the natives in wa have emptied there reservations of big game. i dont know many details , but i do know the natives in arizona have managed the elk herds there extremley well.(white pines, san carlos)

Ive often wondered this myself. I believe the nates down there manage their herds to a T. Often manipulating habitat through prescribed burns to maximize forage and carrying capacity of the land. They also restrict native take through a draw similar to our special permits. This also allows them to sell a small number of permits to non-natives for huge amounts, both providing money for the tribes economy as well as conservation efforts.
Ive got a feelin i just spewed a bunch of info everybody already knows..... I just wish some of the tribes up here had a similar view on wildlife management as some of the south west tribes. There..  ...done venting.

[couesbitten]

Yes, it seems that the tribes in AZ and NM are much smarter about managing their wildlife resources. But, when you consider that these are some of the same tribes that made clay pottery, built city structures such as Chaco Canyon and Pueblo Bonito, built roads, and farmed, it seems that they are just more intel........  oh, never mind.

[littlebuf]

if Indians want to hunt what ever and when ever where ever because its there "native right" i say thats fine, but they should have to do it with home made long bows with home made arrows and only pursue the animals on foot or horse back except during the hunting seasons we all hunt. how bout that? its kinda like when they hunt whales with jet boats and high power rifles and they say its some sort of spiritual ritual    give me a break. if you want to kill indiscriminately just because you can than say so. ill respect you a lot more for at least being honest 

[colockumelk]

Nope the treaty specifically says they can have their cake and eat it to.

[Gobble Gobble]

The way I see it the white man has conquered the world and US (cuz nobody could beat us) an all those we have  on along the way are now getting even. For example, this thread we took the Indians land and now we have given or will eventally give them back everything we took to include the fish & game, we ran the Mexicans back across the boarder and now we have let them come back and to say were sorry we support them with well fair and free medical and last but not least we enslaved blacks so we elected one president of the US and he is now the cracker holding the whip enslaving us. It is me or have we all just gotten donkey punched.