European mount techniques

[Band]

Up until now I have been cutting down the back of the skull, through the brain and eye sockets, and out the bridge of the nose with a hand saw and then boiling off the tissue for my deer mounts but I'd like to do a full skull this time.  I'd like to try burying the skull under ground (with the antlers above ground) to let the creepy crawlies take care of the work of getting rid of the tissue.  My concern is what the skull will look like when the bugs are finished.  Any tips on using this method while avoiding permanent dirt ground in to the skull?  Not sure whether it can be done.

[Ebell]

I've tried the dirt and forget it method but the fastest method is the bucket of water, someplace away from the house.  Further the better. Secure the antlers in a way so nothing can chew on them and refill the water or address when needed.  It's much faster but very stinky

[n_mathews13]

Never done a elk before , but I have done a few deer, bear and coon skulls. The ground is a great way to go. Take a little time, but a great job. Got a few coons out back right now. I think , time of year and location is big.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Friend of mine buried his in the dirt for a few months and it looks really nice ..He decided not to bleach it because he liked the little darker look .. I may try it but I think I would dig a hole and fill it with sand ...I bet that would work better than dirt ..

By the way ...Those mounts look pretty nice ! Band ...

[Band]

I may try it but I think I would dig a hole and fill it with sand ...I bet that would work better than dirt ..

Bingo, there's an idea that may help prevent the skull from getting too permanently "dirty".  I think I'll try that.  I was thinking about putting a yard waste container over the top to prevent critters from chewing on the antlers and hopefully from digging up the skull.

[n_mathews13]

If you put it in dirt.wrap the antlers in tinfoil ( keeps bugs/mice off of them)
Leave it for a few months and then check it out. A tote works good to keep it out of sun. If it's done, put in hot water for a few ,then wash it up. Put it in soap for at least a week ( to get any grease out). Then put it in peroxide for a few days. Perfectly white ( not bleached!)

[n_mathews13]

Here is a few

[stevemiller]

Good luck with the new method,But I must say the way you were doing them with the hacksaw is awesome.Ive never seen them done that way before. 

[HunterStrait]

This is a pretty useful video if you're going to bury it.

[Band]

Great, lots of good tips, and that video makes it look pretty easy.  I already have the hide off the skull so I'm thinking 3 months should definitely be long enough.  I'll post the final product when it is complete.

Good luck with the new method,But I must say the way you were doing them with the hacksaw is awesome.Ive never seen them done that way before. 

Thanks.  Not sure exactly how I came up with that method but I'll say that I quickly found a hack saw to be really hard to control and get a straight cut so I use a short, stout wood cutting hand saw.

[stevemiller]

Band  Have you done any elk like that?If so I would like to see a pic of that if you dont mind.

[Tbar]

Band have you ruled out maceration?  Or boiling?  Or just leaving it under something above ground(like a small boat or tote)? I only ask because these are all methods I've tried with both success and failure.  The only true failure was over boiling.  I could post a few of the skulls tonight if you want.  I do like some of the natural skulls. 

[Band]

Band  Have you done any elk like that?If so I would like to see a pic of that if you dont mind.

Sorry, I've done a few for friends over the years but don't have any pics of them.  I did my bull moose with a similar cut but it's on the other side of the state so I can't get a pic of that anytime soon.

By the way, since that cut makes the antlers stick more out than up it works well for a bull elk when it is going to be hung high on the wall, like where there is a vaulted ceiling.  I think it would stick out to far if hung in a room with a standard ceiling height.  Not such a problem with most deer.

Here's another angle showing the cut a little better.  I think it looks best when you cut from  quite a ways back on the skull, a little more than 1/2 of the eye socket, and way out the bridge of the nose.  Typically after boiling the tissue off I take a hand file to the top of the skull and around the bridge of the nose to give it a good shape.

[Band]

Band have you ruled out maceration?  Or boiling?  Or just leaving it under something above ground(like a small boat or tote)? I only ask because these are all methods I've tried with both success and failure.  The only true failure was over boiling.  I could post a few of the skulls tonight if you want.  I do like some of the natural skulls.

I don't want to deal with the hassle and stink of maceration and the skull is too big to fit in the pot I have available (unless I cut it down like I normally do).  Also, I really dislike messing with the brain and the ground method should take care of that problem.

Yes, please post the skulls you have - I would like to take a look.

[stevemiller]

how are you attaching the skull to the mount this way?

[Band]

I fill the brain cavity with bondo, drill 3 holes through the plaque, and put screws through the back of the plaque into the bondo.  Oh, and I attach a wire between the top 2 screws so I can hang it on a nail in the wall.  It's pretty easy.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Anyone try a compost bin yet?  I have a wooden one animals can't get in.

[Tbar]

Ok here goes.  These are all natural left under a canoe.

[Tbar]

These are boiled (slow) and peroxide.

[Tbar]

The first is boiled the second is all natural. 

[Tbar]

This one is money well spent.  Beetle done and degreased by a taxi.

[Tbar]

It wouldn't take much to make the natural look better.  They just sit in the bone pile until I want a project.

[elk247]

Never again. beetles, degreaser, and hair bleach from now on for me. Although I do want to try metal cold casting on my next euro.

[Band]

This one is money well spent.  Beetle done and degreased by a taxi.

Can't beat that for a finished product.  How much would you expect to pay a taxi for this service?

[elk247]

I made some inquires two years ago for a cousins bull elk. I called three different taxi's, The range I got was $175-325 depending on options. (Beetles cleening only, Mounting plaque, bleach, Paint) I gave him instructions on how to do it and saved him a wad of cash. I think I showed you pictures of the bull last time I saw you. The prices I was quoted were fair but we decided to give it a try. I know a friend with beetles about 25 mins from you,  if you decide to do your own. (WAY cleaner and faster than putting in the ground)

[Band]

I make my own plaques and do my own mounting so really, the skull cleaning is the only thing I'm interested in.  Any idea how much your buddy would charge for using his beetles to do the job, elk247?

[Tbar]

This one is money well spent.  Beetle done and degreased by a taxi.

Can't beat that for a finished product.  How much would you expect to pay a taxi for this service?

Pm Natures Way, that's not who did that one (fidalgo did mine). The small details are amazing, the delicate nasal bones are all intact. That pic doesn't do the quality justice. I believe you would be looking at the 180-200 range for what you are looking do.  Also pm bugs and bones for a quote. 

[shadowless_nite]

Ive never had the chance to do a elk but i did do a bear and a few deer usin maceration. There was a thread on here somewhere that described how to do it. The key during the fall is keeping the water warm so bacteria can thrive the first few weeks if you have to do it outdoors like i do. I use a fishtank heater from amazon to keep the water warm. Once its clean i do a quick boil with soapy water then complete water change again let it soak some more in soapy heated water for a week or 2. After that i let it dry off for a day inside the house and then use hair bleach developer cream 40 volume if you got it. If you know someone with a beauticians license get some 50 volume. This is peroxide and though iust slightly more expensive  than thr brown bottle stuff it is thick  like hair conditioner or lotion and can be coated on with a 1in chip brush.

[Tbar]

Here is another done by a professional using beetles, degreased, and peroxide.  No paint so some coloration will eventually show (which I don't mind), I'm not a fan of painted white skulls.

[elk247]

I make my own plaques and do my own mounting so really, the skull cleaning is the only thing I'm interested in.  Any idea how much your buddy would charge for using his beetles to do the job, elk247?

I'll find out for you, I see him next weekend. I have seen bugs and bones work. He does an awesome job.

[MagKarl]

How well does masceration work this time of year with no heater?  I was thinking I'd try soaking a deer skull in a black 5 gallon bucket, hoping the black bucket might get warmed by the sun each day. 

[Tbar]

I believe maceration works best if you keep a constant temp of 90-100.

[stevemiller]

I was thinking about this edition of monster quest I saw.If this is true I would think burying it might be slowing the process.  there is a video. monster quest bigfoot skunkape deer decomposition time lapse.

[Band]

Status update:  I dug a hole in the back yard 2 months ago, lined it with sand, put in the skull, and covered the skull with more sand so only he antlers are sticking out of the ground.  To protect from mice, raccoons, opossum, and such I covered the whole thing with a wheelbarrow.  It has been a bit stinky in the area and there has been a constant swarm of bees for weeks, and I mean A LOT of bees.  I'm hoping the swarm subsides by the first of November because that's when I want to take my first peek under the wheelbarrow.

[blindluck]

You could drop the head in a bucket of water with an aquarium heater and put a garbage can upside down over it like you are doing with the wheel borrow and it would be done in a week.

[MagKarl]

I have been experimenting with the cold water maceration technique for the last month or so.  I have been hanging a black 5 gallon bucket in the trees so that nothing will mess with it.  I'm not using a heater, just the summer weather.  It's probably been about 5 weeks now.  I check on it and top off the water about twice a week.  Internet info is all over the map about how long it should take, and what to do with the water/soup.  I just checked it last night and it's getting close to losing all the fleshy stuff.  I'm trying to resist pulling it off and let it fall off by itself.  Some teeth are loose but none have fallen out yet.  It's a little stinky but not that bad now.

[Jonathan_S]

I believe maceration works best if you keep a constant temp of 90-100.

10 days in a white bucket in ambient temperature did it for me.  Bacteria is pretty persistent.  It doesn't need any help 

[lamrith]

Status update:  I dug a hole in the back yard 2 months ago, lined it with sand, put in the skull, and covered the skull with more sand so only he antlers are sticking out of the ground.  To protect from mice, raccoons, opossum, and such I covered the whole thing with a wheelbarrow.  It has been a bit stinky in the area and there has been a constant swarm of bees for weeks, and I mean A LOT of bees.  I'm hoping the swarm subsides by the first of November because that's when I want to take my first peek under the wheelbarrow.

Chances are the bees made a nest under the wheel barrow so I would not mess with it at this point!  Can you tell if they are bees or maybe Yellow Jackets?  Yellow Jackets love meat and are nasty when bothered.

Look forward to seeing your results though!

[Band]

Status update:  I dug a hole in the back yard 2 months ago, lined it with sand, put in the skull, and covered the skull with more sand so only he antlers are sticking out of the ground.  To protect from mice, raccoons, opossum, and such I covered the whole thing with a wheelbarrow.  It has been a bit stinky in the area and there has been a constant swarm of bees for weeks, and I mean A LOT of bees.  I'm hoping the swarm subsides by the first of November because that's when I want to take my first peek under the wheelbarrow.

Chances are the bees made a nest under the wheel barrow so I would not mess with it at this point!  Can you tell if they are bees or maybe Yellow Jackets?  Yellow Jackets love meat and are nasty when bothered.

Look forward to seeing your results though!

I didn't consider that there may be a nest under the wheelbarrow but I know there has to be one somewhere very close to the skull.  There are yellow jackets and at least one other variety of bee as well, maybe two.  I put up a trap yesterday to try to kill some of them so I can maybe venture in a little closer for a look.

[Bean Counter]

I've tried the dirt and forget it method but the fastest method is the bucket of water, someplace away from the house.  Further the better. Secure the antlers in a way so nothing can chew on them run off with them like a yote or neighborhood dog  and refill the water or address when needed.  It's much faster but very stinky

[Band]

I emptied the dead bees and refreshed one trap this morning with more sugar water and watermelon and already have some new visitors.

[Band]

And I put this trap out yesterday afternoon.  What can I say, bees love watermelon.

[Johnb317]

Those are yellow jackets, not bees.
Yellow jackets will visit your bbq, bees visit flowers.

[Band]

Those are yellow jackets, not bees.
Yellow jackets will visit your bbq, bees visit flowers.

Since I am dealing with more than one species, you'll have to excuse my generized term "bees" for any critter that flies around looking to sting me if I get too close.  Yes, the ones in the yellow trap all look to be yellow jackets.  There were a few yellow jackets in the other trap but most in that one look a lot like those bald-faced Hornets people were talking about in the elk hunting section.

[Band]

Update:  I removed the skull from the ground (after 3 months), hosed it off and here is what it looks like.  The lower jaw came apart - not sure whether that is to be expected.  But I'll probably remove it for mounting anyway.  Looks to be mostly cleaned of tissue.  I set it on top of the ground under the wheelbarrow and will leave it another month or so and see how it looks.  My idea of surrounding the skull with clean sand to keep the skull relatively white didn't work quite as I had hoped so I'll have to figure out a way to clean that up at some point.

[BlackRiverTaxidermy]

Thought I might comment on this post. I have done euro's for years, even before doing it commercially through my business (BlackRiver Taxidermy). I've tried a NUMBER of ways and thought I would write my findings...keep in mind this is just my opinion based up my experiences with these 4 methods.
1.Boiling- clean the skull well and boil starting with soda ash (eats the flesh much quicker by raising the PH) in the water for an 45 minutes, clean by hand then re-boil with Dawn Dishing washing soap instead of soda ash for another session (45 minutes). Several sessions are needed and final clean with pressure washer- PROs= good clean, easy clean-up and doesn't stain the bone making it easier to bleach out. By far the fastest method. CONs= makes the bones weak by disintegrating the cartilage and usually the nose cap and upper mandible can detach required re-attachment, especially in younger animals such as spikes. Also, during clean-up/power washing there is a high probability you will damage the small nasal bones that really define a good euro mount. 

2. Maceration (soaking). Clean the skull well (remove hide, eyes, brains and excess meat). Put in tap water in a container that can be heated and kept between 68-80 degrees. Leave skull in for a month or 2, possibly change SOME of the water halfway through the process, DO NOT let water come past the skull an onto the antlers! PROs- meat, viscera, cartilage comes away very clean and there is little that needs to be done by way of  maintence. CONs= HORREDIOUS smell that can be smelled from quite a ways off! I can handle a lot of bad smells, but this one is pretty bad, comparable to raw sewage!! It also 'stains' the bone with both a tan tint AND the smell. ALSO..it looses the bones even worse than boiling and you WILL have some bones that will need to be re-attached. A good method is dip the bones in 1 part chlorox to 6 parts water for 5 minutes and rinse well before going onto bleaching, if you leave it in any longer than 5 minutes it will eat the small nasal 'netting' bones.

3. Natural/Burrying. Clean the skull as above and bury. Leave anywhere from 2 months to 6 months depending upon your soil composition and temp. PROs=tends not to loosen the bones and easy clean up, easy to do. CONs= Its hard to find a spot, even in the city, that is 100 percent free of critters that will attempt to dig it up. This method also stains the bone even worse than the Maceration technique making bleaching harder.

4. Dermestids/Beetles. We have beetles, and as you will probably tell, I like them the best. Clean the skull as usual. DO NOT boil, salt, or put any chemicals on the skull/meat as the beetles will not touch it then. Put in with the beetles and dependent upon how many beetles are working on it is dependent upon how long you have to wait. PROs= very little maintenance. The beetles also don't touch the cartilage or 'netting' bones leaving the skull completely structurally intact and beautiful. Also, there is NO staining of the bones and they come out very white making final bleaching easy and very effective. CONs= You have to have beetles, know a taxi with beetles and if you decide to get them, remember, they are animals...thus they require constant attention such as feeding/watering/cleaning/etc. This method is not as fast as boiling, but much much quicker than method 2 or 3. My beetles will have deer skull done in 16-36 hours.

I hope this is helpful....again, this is my findings based upon doing all 4 and I am sure there are others that may disagree. Sorry for the long-winded reply, but I hope this was helpful.     
Joel -B.R.T

[Band]

Thanks for the input, BRT.  Next time I get one that I want to go on the wall I'll probably use the beetles option.  I just need to shop around to find out who does that in my area at relatively low cost.

[Band]

Project complete...FINALLY!

[BlackRiverTaxidermy]

Nice job! Love the plaque with it!