Are we losing elk and deer permits to big timber companies in SE Washington??

[Woodchuck]

Rosscrazyelk does the same thing. I just prefer to chase spikes, the meat tastes better. 

[jimbow]

I don't fault the landowners at all for taking advantage of this opportunity and negotiating the best deal for themselves that they can.  I do have a real problem with an already limited availability of permits for the average hunter.  It literally took me 20 years to draw a muzzle-loader bull permit in the Blues, but if I'd had the money, I could have purchased "access" to one of the limited landowner permits available to the 4-0 Cattle Company or now Bennett Lumber.  These are certainly NOT available to the average hunter.
I also have a huge problem with the arbitrary way these LHP's are selected and administered.  Other landowners in the same areas that have always been open to public access are given NO consideration by WDFW when allotting these programs.  Their only thanks for being open to the general public is a sound slap in the face when they see their neighbors being handed these lucrative permits in order to open their own properties to limited access. 
If these programs are to exist, they need to be handled equitably to all and not just a few select individuals who make the most noise or happen to have a nice piece of ground that WDFW is interested in purchasing down the road.  I would prefer instead that the whole program be scrapped with a return to the days of actually fostering good landowner relations without feeling the need to bribe them with quality permits for sale......oh excuse me, access to the land for sale.  Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that knows a lot of the history of these programs. 
If I were an adjacent landowner in this area, my land would be locked up tight and posted to demonstrate the down-side to selling the State's resources to the highest bidder.  Why would I keep my land open for free if I can get my own "piece of the pie" like the others.

[Bob33]

You make some very good points.

[grundy53]

Just to muddy the waters...

Hancock get something like 8 elk tags to hunt their property which the executives get.

That is a general season 3 point or better unit. Why would they need a permit from the state?

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[jackelope]

I don't fault the landowners at all for taking advantage of this opportunity and negotiating the best deal for themselves that they can.  I do have a real problem with an already limited availability of permits for the average hunter.  It literally took me 20 years to draw a muzzle-loader bull permit in the Blues, but if I'd had the money, I could have purchased "access" to one of the limited landowner permits available to the 4-0 Cattle Company or now Bennett Lumber.  These are certainly NOT available to the average hunter.
I also have a huge problem with the arbitrary way these LHP's are selected and administered.  Other landowners in the same areas that have always been open to public access are given NO consideration by WDFW when allotting these programs.  Their only thanks for being open to the general public is a sound slap in the face when they see their neighbors being handed these lucrative permits in order to open their own properties to limited access. 
If these programs are to exist, they need to be handled equitably to all and not just a few select individuals who make the most noise or happen to have a nice piece of ground that WDFW is interested in purchasing down the road.  I would prefer instead that the whole program be scrapped with a return to the days of actually fostering good landowner relations without feeling the need to bribe them with quality permits for sale......oh excuse me, access to the land for sale.  Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that knows a lot of the history of these programs. 
If I were an adjacent landowner in this area, my land would be locked up tight and posted to demonstrate the down-side to selling the State's resources to the highest bidder.  Why would I keep my land open for free if I can get my own "piece of the pie" like the others.

I'm afraid we'll be seeing that happening all too soon, and that will be a big loss for the hunters of this state.

[pd]

I don't fault the landowners at all for taking advantage of this opportunity and negotiating the best deal for themselves that they can.  I do have a real problem with an already limited availability of permits for the average hunter.  It literally took me 20 years to draw a muzzle-loader bull permit in the Blues, but if I'd had the money, I could have purchased "access" to one of the limited landowner permits available to the 4-0 Cattle Company or now Bennett Lumber.  These are certainly NOT available to the average hunter.
I also have a huge problem with the arbitrary way these LHP's are selected and administered.  Other landowners in the same areas that have always been open to public access are given NO consideration by WDFW when allotting these programs.  Their only thanks for being open to the general public is a sound slap in the face when they see their neighbors being handed these lucrative permits in order to open their own properties to limited access. 
If these programs are to exist, they need to be handled equitably to all and not just a few select individuals who make the most noise or happen to have a nice piece of ground that WDFW is interested in purchasing down the road.  I would prefer instead that the whole program be scrapped with a return to the days of actually fostering good landowner relations without feeling the need to bribe them with quality permits for sale......oh excuse me, access to the land for sale.  Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that knows a lot of the history of these programs. 
If I were an adjacent landowner in this area, my land would be locked up tight and posted to demonstrate the down-side to selling the State's resources to the highest bidder.  Why would I keep my land open for free if I can get my own "piece of the pie" like the others.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but well said, Sir.

[huntnphool]

As I have told you before Josh.. I believe this is absolutely  Bull S#%£.
No way they should be Givin any extra state tags... put the tags in the general  hunt and let the public have access.  If they want to keep  it to themselves  they have to draw just like the rest of us.
Everyone on this forum should call wdfw and let them have it...

Do you think that the forest company/land owner shouldn't be given any incentive to enroll his land into the hunt programs?  Why would any do it if there was no incentive for them?  No matter how big or small a company they have to pay a person to answer a phone and manage the program.  It would be far easier and cheaper to simply shut the gates and hunt behind them with their own land owner permits or go the way of Weyerhauser and lease it out to a few people that are easier to supervise.

If the state is gonna give them tags it should not count against our quota

  To the best of my knowledge elk and deer tags are sold over the counter and unless I missed something they haven't ever sold out.  Is this a special hunt draw area?  Is there something other than the fact it is private land that makes tags harder to get for these GMUs? 

 You really need to do some research!

lol, yes, hes arguing and doesnt know what he is talking about.

Not sure what argument your referring to, if these are special draws it makes sense to be miffed about losing some of the tags.  I agree with you there.  I think you all are being awfully short sighted when it comes to the access to private lands.  They could give you 10 times the tags in the quota and if the land owner locks you out what good will it do you?

 You are not listening Mac, go back and read from the bigginining and maybe it will become a little clearer.


 And for everyone else that is reading/commenting in this thread, I was informed today that both the permits have been filled already, the 1st permit and bull killed by the land manager, and the second by his buddy, the source is pretty well informed too.

[emac]

Most of the the landowner's in these gmu's get damage permitts for the damage the deer or elk do to their crops. Those damage permitts are only for cows or doe's. Most of them (not all of them) will give permission to someone that draws a special permit. Last I checked Bennett lumber company doesn't have any crop on there land beside timber. I don't think deer/elk do that much damage rubbing trees. I would understand this if it was a permit for baiting bears but giving a company quality tags, taking away from us hunters quota and giving neighboring landowner's antlerless tags doesn't make sense to me. Don't know!!

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[huntnphool]

I don't fault the landowners at all for taking advantage of this opportunity and negotiating the best deal for themselves that they can.  I do have a real problem with an already limited availability of permits for the average hunter.  It literally took me 20 years to draw a muzzle-loader bull permit in the Blues, but if I'd had the money, I could have purchased "access" to one of the limited landowner permits available to the 4-0 Cattle Company or now Bennett Lumber.  These are certainly NOT available to the average hunter.
I also have a huge problem with the arbitrary way these LHP's are selected and administered.  Other landowners in the same areas that have always been open to public access are given NO consideration by WDFW when allotting these programs.  Their only thanks for being open to the general public is a sound slap in the face when they see their neighbors being handed these lucrative permits in order to open their own properties to limited access. 
If these programs are to exist, they need to be handled equitably to all and not just a few select individuals who make the most noise or happen to have a nice piece of ground that WDFW is interested in purchasing down the road.  I would prefer instead that the whole program be scrapped with a return to the days of actually fostering good landowner relations without feeling the need to bribe them with quality permits for sale......oh excuse me, access to the land for sale.  Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that knows a lot of the history of these programs. 
If I were an adjacent landowner in this area, my land would be locked up tight and posted to demonstrate the down-side to selling the State's resources to the highest bidder.  Why would I keep my land open for free if I can get my own "piece of the pie" like the others.

 Spot on.

[Tikka 15]

I know a neighboring landowner that has been giving permission to the public for years.  Many of the quality Bulls in this unit come off his place.  He does have a fare amount of damage each year to his crops and fences.  What incentive does he have now to let anyone hunt his place if the neighbor with no damage gets a huge bone thrown to him.  He gets no compensation for the damages just two cow tags.  And a good part of the time it's a herd of Bulls doing a majority of the damage.  I would not be surprised if he shuts his place down completely.  Opening up new hunting opportunities my rear end.  Better give each owner incentive or just leave it alone and no special tags given.

[SemperFidelis97]

I don't fault the landowners at all for taking advantage of this opportunity and negotiating the best deal for themselves that they can.  I do have a real problem with an already limited availability of permits for the average hunter.  It literally took me 20 years to draw a muzzle-loader bull permit in the Blues, but if I'd had the money, I could have purchased "access" to one of the limited landowner permits available to the 4-0 Cattle Company or now Bennett Lumber.  These are certainly NOT available to the average hunter.
I also have a huge problem with the arbitrary way these LHP's are selected and administered.  Other landowners in the same areas that have always been open to public access are given NO consideration by WDFW when allotting these programs.  Their only thanks for being open to the general public is a sound slap in the face when they see their neighbors being handed these lucrative permits in order to open their own properties to limited access. 
If these programs are to exist, they need to be handled equitably to all and not just a few select individuals who make the most noise or happen to have a nice piece of ground that WDFW is interested in purchasing down the road.  I would prefer instead that the whole program be scrapped with a return to the days of actually fostering good landowner relations without feeling the need to bribe them with quality permits for sale......oh excuse me, access to the land for sale.  Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that knows a lot of the history of these programs. 
If I were an adjacent landowner in this area, my land would be locked up tight and posted to demonstrate the down-side to selling the State's resources to the highest bidder.  Why would I keep my land open for free if I can get my own "piece of the pie" like the others.

As Jackelope said this is happening already.  I am telling you now that if something isn't done about this, and very soon there will be literally hundreds of thousands of acres in that area that are going to leave the program.  In an area of the state that is largely private that is a huge loss of access.  The state cannot arbitrarily give out special permits to certain landowners that are valued in the 10s of thousands of dollars as an incentive to allow access, we are going down the wrong road statewide.  Someone mentioned the Kapowsin tree farm as well where some of the biggest bulls on the west side of the state have come out of.  Do you think it's fair that guys will pay the money for a pass for years in the hopes of being the guy that gets drawn to hunt elk in there, and meanwhile the shareholders get to hand out 8 permits to whomever they please.  This isn't just a S.E. issues this affects all of us, we don't want to be a state where the mega rich, or very large landowners get to play by their own rules. 

[SemperFidelis97]

Please everyone use Bobs link, and let the commission know that we will not stand for this.  I don't think its too late, but we need a strong response to get this turned around.

[jackelope]

I know a neighboring landowner that has been giving permission to the public for years.  Many of the quality Bulls in this unit come off his place.  He does have a fare amount of damage each year to his crops and fences.  What incentive does he have now to let anyone hunt his place if the neighbor with no damage gets a huge bone thrown to him.  He gets no compensation for the damages just two cow tags.  And a good part of the time it's a herd of Bulls doing a majority of the damage.  I would not be surprised if he shuts his place down completely.  Opening up new hunting opportunities my rear end.  Better give each owner incentive or just leave it alone and no special tags given.

Welcome to the forum Tikka 15 and thanks for your input. I hope what you're saying doesn't happen, but I'm afraid it's too late. I know a pile of really nice Bulls have come off of and live on that land.

[huntnphool]

I know a neighboring landowner that has been giving permission to the public for years.  Many of the quality Bulls in this unit come off his place.  He does have a fare amount of damage each year to his crops and fences.  What incentive does he have now to let anyone hunt his place if the neighbor with no damage gets a huge bone thrown to him.  He gets no compensation for the damages just two cow tags.  And a good part of the time it's a herd of Bulls doing a majority of the damage.  I would not be surprised if he shuts his place down completely.  Opening up new hunting opportunities my rear end.  Better give each owner incentive or just leave it alone and no special tags given.

  It would be a shame if that is the way things turn out, can't say I blame them though.

 Welcome to the site.

[rosscrazyelk]

Rosscrazyelk does the same thing. I just prefer to chase spikes, the meat tastes better. 

Lol