poacher busted Oly Penninsula?

[predatorpro]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

Washington state voters made it illegal, not WDFW.

I know...but did wdfw do anything to reverse it? I don't remember the wdfw doing anything to stop it...I know it was voted on....but a wdfw that's funded by hunters and does nothing to protect our hunting rights? Seems to me it's another way to make revenue which is more important

[Bob33]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

Washington state voters made it illegal, not WDFW.

I know...but did wdfw do anything to reverse it?

That wasn't your accusation. It's tough when facts get in the way of a false accusation, isn't it?

"...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasn't"

[predatorpro]

It just makes me mad that the government can bait bears or use hounds when they want to and it's perfectly fine but if someone without a shiny badge does they are made criminals...and only criminals because of uneducated anti hunting idiots while so many hunters now criticize someone who breaks that law made by the people who don't want you to hunt...really?

[predatorpro]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

Washington state voters made it illegal, not WDFW.

I know...but did wdfw do anything to reverse it?

That wasn't your accusation. It's tough when facts get in the way of a false accusation, isn't it?

"...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasn't"

Thanks for correcting me!! I don't know what else you call the department that enforces the anti hunting communities laws forced on us...

[saylean]

As far as these guys specifically are concerned, I would have a lot more respect for them had they signed affidavits as to their intent and sent a message to the WDFW as to the location of their bait and when they'd be there over it. That would have at least shown this was a moral fight instead of something that happened as a result of them getting caught.

I'm going to attempt to make my position on bear baiting clear then I'm getting out because I don't wish to create more animosity. This is about bear baiting and breaking the law that prohibits it. I opposed the initiative to end baiting and hounding. I would support any effort to overturn the law, either on constitutional grounds or by initiative (or any other way to legally get around it). But, I won't break the law, because it makes hunters look like we think we're above the law and will cause us to lose support from non-hunters, support which has allowed us to continue to hunt. If you don't understand my point, you probably never will. But, being that we're less than 4% of the state's population, my opinion is that our profile to the rest of the population is extremely important. Flaunting lawlessness will hurt our privileges even more going forward.  Done! Have a nice day.

 

[popeshawnpaul]

There is precident for them to get away with baiting. Here is an old article:

http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/june2004/bear.htm


Near Quinault last fall, officers raided a camp of about a dozen hunters, charging ten of them with bear baiting: Thomas Durham, James Durham, Christina Stannard, John West, Douglas Klamm, John Speleers, Burgess Drake, Craig Stevenson, Cory Johnson and Dale Steinhauer.

The accused ring leader, Tom Durham, denied doing anything wrong, and the charges against him and the others were dropped this week after a district court judge in Jefferson County ruled the initiative to be unconstitutional.

"What's wrong with it is, it refers to both baiting bears, hunting bears with bait, and also tracking cougars with dogs or hunting cougars with dogs," said defense attorney Linda Callahan. "And that in itself is two subjects, so it violates the rule."

"Well, certainly in Jefferson County, I don't think the prosecutor will file any more cases," said defense attorney John Stanislay. "What it means outside of Jefferson County at this point I'm not sure."

KING 5 asked: "But if you were a defense attorney in a neighboring county with one of these cases, wouldn't you make this argument now?"

"I definitely would make the argument, but I would not advise my client to go hunting with bait," said Stanislay.

The state Department of Fish and Wildlife says it's disappointed at the ruling.

"We're going to continue to enforce it. It's a statewide law," said Chief Bruce Bjork, Washington Dept. Fish & Wildlife. "This is a district court decision in Jefferson County specific, so we'll continue to enforce it statewide."

This case was overturned by the Court of Appeals and they were convicted in 2006...

[bowbuild]

There is precident for them to get away with baiting. Here is an old article:

http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/june2004/bear.htm


Near Quinault last fall, officers raided a camp of about a dozen hunters, charging ten of them with bear baiting: Thomas Durham, James Durham, Christina Stannard, John West, Douglas Klamm, John Speleers, Burgess Drake, Craig Stevenson, Cory Johnson and Dale Steinhauer.

The accused ring leader, Tom Durham, denied doing anything wrong, and the charges against him and the others were dropped this week after a district court judge in Jefferson County ruled the initiative to be unconstitutional.

"What's wrong with it is, it refers to both baiting bears, hunting bears with bait, and also tracking cougars with dogs or hunting cougars with dogs," said defense attorney Linda Callahan. "And that in itself is two subjects, so it violates the rule."

"Well, certainly in Jefferson County, I don't think the prosecutor will file any more cases," said defense attorney John Stanislay. "What it means outside of Jefferson County at this point I'm not sure."

KING 5 asked: "But if you were a defense attorney in a neighboring county with one of these cases, wouldn't you make this argument now?"

"I definitely would make the argument, but I would not advise my client to go hunting with bait," said Stanislay.

The state Department of Fish and Wildlife says it's disappointed at the ruling.

"We're going to continue to enforce it. It's a statewide law," said Chief Bruce Bjork, Washington Dept. Fish & Wildlife. "This is a district court decision in Jefferson County specific, so we'll continue to enforce it statewide."

This case was overturned by the Court of Appeals and they were convicted in 2006...

What did they convict them on the "spirit" of the law?? I hate that crap.....Can you provide a link to the appeal courts decision?

By the way....yes, the game department has, and did pick sides....

"It's a fair hunt principle; baiting isn't fair play," said Craig Bartlett, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife public information officer. "The [court] decision will make enforcing the law more difficult in Jefferson County."

You have it wrong Bob.


I find baiting to be much more ethical than spot and stock, you have a chance at a bait station to ID your bear, not so at a couple of hundred yds with your rifle. Bait stations allows time to see if cubs are around.......and if you ever ran a station, you would know what I am saying is accurate. I ran multiple stations before the law changed. I would give my elk tag up to be able to bait again. It is not worth the fines even though I hate the law on this subject!!!

[bigtex]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

Washington state voters made it illegal, not WDFW.

I know...but did wdfw do anything to reverse it? I don't remember the wdfw doing anything to stop it...I know it was voted on....but a wdfw that's funded by hunters and does nothing to protect our hunting rights? Seems to me it's another way to make revenue which is more important

Under state law agencies cannot chose sides in voter initiatives before and during the voting period.

You cant have WDFW commercials saying "vote no on the black bear baiting ban".

The only thing agencies in WA can do on initiatives is provide facts/data when asked for it, no opinions can be offered.

In comparison, agencies can have opinions on bills voted on in the legislature.

[bowbuild]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

Washington state voters made it illegal, not WDFW.

I know...but did wdfw do anything to reverse it? I don't remember the wdfw doing anything to stop it...I know it was voted on....but a wdfw that's funded by hunters and does nothing to protect our hunting rights? Seems to me it's another way to make revenue which is more important

Under state law agencies cannot chose sides in voter initiatives before and during the voting period.

You cant have WDFW commercials saying "vote no on the black bear baiting ban".

The only thing agencies in WA can do on initiatives is provide facts/data when asked for it, no opinions can be offered.

In comparison, agencies can have opinions on bills voted on in the legislature.

Providing factual data in a positive manner is NOT choosing sides, and at several meetings which I attended, I seen NO factual evidence provided....and I asked.

[MisplacedAlaskan]

To be honest I have no problem with anyone who baits bears...if hunting was made illegal we would still all hunt and we would justify it...baiting was perfectly fine until a corrupt wdfw decided one day it wasnt..nothing changed except another page with some writing on in a boo full of other laws...

I agree with this.
I have never baited bears, and don't plan to, and I'm not advocating for people to break the law. With that being said, at what point do all of you who say once something is a law you won't willfully break it, start breaking the law? If archery hunting is made illegal would you still archery hunt? Or as predator pro said, would you give up hunting entirely if it was made illegal? Would your turn in your guns if gun ownership became a crime? If prohibition came back, would you quit drinking? At some point judgement and common sense need to be exercised.

I'm not saying the bear baiting is the issue where you decide to willfully break the law, but maybe for some people it is. I personally don't care if people do it, and I don't turn in bait stations I find.

[snake]

Too many boneheads trying to get free points for draws.  Hunters turning others in for finding a bait station is dumb.  We need to stick together.  I had a WDFW Officer tell me "I will enforce any law they make"   What a joke, Just another sheep in the herd...

[Blacktail Sniper]

It is kinda his job....like it or not.

How about if he thought people should be able to hunt on your property even if you didn't want them there?

Be as angry as you want, but direct it to the appropriate level/place...

[Skillet]

Too many boneheads trying to get free points for draws.  Hunters turning others in for finding a bait station is dumb.  We need to stick together.  I had a WDFW Officer tell me "I will enforce any law they make"   What a joke, Just another sheep in the herd...

The "stick together" argument is valid when fighting to prevent erosion of our hunting priveliges, but invalid when it comes to breaking laws.  If I come across a barrel full of maple bars, I'm going to mention it when I get back. Not fair to the vast majority of true sportsmen that hunt bear in this state that somebody just decides they deserve an illegal advantage because they don't like a law.  Plus, of I unknowingly kill a bear near an illegal bait station, I could get rung up for it.  Do I think that us hunters sticking together means that the owner of the illegal bait station is going to fess up so I don't take the hit? Yeah, right...

And don't assume that everybody who would report blatantly illegal activity want the points or reward. Some of us have a moral compass that guides our behavior, and I enjoy not being disappointed in the man in the mirror each morning. 

[MisplacedAlaskan]

Too many boneheads trying to get free points for draws.  Hunters turning others in for finding a bait station is dumb.  We need to stick together.  I had a WDFW Officer tell me "I will enforce any law they make"   What a joke, Just another sheep in the herd...

The "stick together" argument is valid when fighting to prevent erosion of our hunting priveliges, but invalid when it comes to breaking laws.  If I come across a barrel full of maple bars, I'm going to mention it when I get back. Not fair to the vast majority of true sportsmen that hunt bear in this state that somebody just decides they deserve an illegal advantage because they don't like a law.  Plus, of I unknowingly kill a bear near an illegal bait station, I could get rung up for it.  Do I think that us hunters sticking together means that the owner of the illegal bait station is going to fess up so I don't take the hit? Yeah, right...

And don't assume that everybody who would report blatantly illegal activity want the points or reward. Some of us have a moral compass that guides our behavior, and I enjoy not being disappointed in the man in the mirror each morning. 

If hunting was made illegal in this state are you going to quit doing it and report anyone you observe hunting?

[Skillet]

I read your previous post with the same question, and didn't address it because I think it is unknowable for all of us - including the people who say now that they would do it.  What are the consequences?  What were the circumstances that brought the hunting ban about?  Where would I be in my hunting life at that point?  All unknowable, and to engage in that kind of speculation is silly.  Ultimately, the point is to prevent the erosion of the priveliges we currently enjoy.  That's where I now choose to put my effort - not in arguing potential actions based on totally improbable situations.
I posted to this thread because I thought it was interesting that snake called a bunch of hunters boneheads and then implored us to stick together and ignore illegal activity - all in the same post.