Free: Contests & Raffles.
I read the article, which was good to see it will get some notice but, I believed it. They took the opportunity to survey ungulates in the area and collect data that was unrelated to their specific survey at the time but gathered data none the less. I think it is a true indication of the WDFW's lack of concern at all for hunters. They knew darn well someone was on those elk and they made the chose to swoop in and collect information on them. I would assume from the fairly steady platform in the Helo and binoculars they could have gotten that info from afar.Do I think they were specifically trying to thwart your hunt? not necessarily. do I think they knew you were hunting them, absolutely they just didn't care. I feel for ya, the fact of the matter is they just don't care about us.
I understand how the survey's are done and I understand the need to get them done whenever they can find time between weather and schedule conflicts with other season's and other survey's. It's not like you can cover the state in a chopper and get an accurate count of the animal's your surveying in a matter of a few days. However I was given a different explanation of what they were doing that day than Lander's was given and that show's that they are changing their story. Which means they are trying to cover their &%$! They weren't surveying elk, so why even interfere with the elk herd? Why did they tell me they simply photographed them and then went on there way when I saw them stay with the elk for over a mile? Along with other hunter's in the area? I heard that someone even called the sheriff's deparment about it! When I was following the elk no other hunter's were near that I could see and that to me mean's someone else saw them doing the same thing in a different area nearby. I was told they were merely taking photo's and then he started asking me questions related to elk statistic's and if I saw one with a collar. Sounded like they were collecting data on elk too.
The things that come up when I read this.1.) It costs thousands an hour to use a helicopter and they are flying when the helicopter is available for usage. Who cares if they were working on the weekend. Many biologists I know work odd schedules to adjust for the surveys they have to do. Sometimes there is a time line they have to follow to get surveys done. They don't care about hunting season. They have a job to do. 2.) They always do surveys this time of year on deer and elk as if they surveyed them in the summer, they wouldn't get a good count of the herds due to loss of animals from hunting.3.) Sounds like they were counting wildlife which included deer and elk if they saw them. Wouldn't you want them to know how many elk are in the area to better manage for future hunting seasons?
Luv2hunt, you seem to be defending WDFW based on your experience in Wildlife Ecology, but then your own words show that WDFW was in the wrong by deviating from their grid pattern to chase these elk. Generally a grid pattern is required to get an accurate count. It is not just flying around at their discretion.Quote from: birddogdad on Today at 10:40:51 AMQuote from: luvtohnt on Today at 10:04:58 AMIs anyone in this thread aware of how a helicopter survey fro deer is done?Brandonif they are surveying DEER, why were they counting and documenting the ELK?? sounds a bit off.. also I don't buy the "cant do it out of hunting season" angle of the response.. generally, the reply demonstrates a lack of care for interaction with hunters based on some needed data collection.. lots of area in the grid and could have returned to this spot later once identified hunters there... survey during a season and direct impact of anyone on the ground is just bad form...Once you start if you break the pattern you will have to re-survey the entire area over. As a participant in the funding of WDFW I would much rather they disrupt a few hunters then re-spend thousands of dollars to re-survey an area! Not to mention they take aerial photos of species they are not surveying quite often. It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting.Your indoctrination to the dark side is complete..... JK, sort of.
"It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting."Other than the fact that we are not in helicopters buzzing them, IDENTICAL.
Quote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:40:18 PMLuv2hunt, you seem to be defending WDFW based on your experience in Wildlife Ecology, but then your own words show that WDFW was in the wrong by deviating from their grid pattern to chase these elk. Generally a grid pattern is required to get an accurate count. It is not just flying around at their discretion.Quote from: birddogdad on Today at 10:40:51 AMQuote from: luvtohnt on Today at 10:04:58 AMIs anyone in this thread aware of how a helicopter survey fro deer is done?Brandonif they are surveying DEER, why were they counting and documenting the ELK?? sounds a bit off.. also I don't buy the "cant do it out of hunting season" angle of the response.. generally, the reply demonstrates a lack of care for interaction with hunters based on some needed data collection.. lots of area in the grid and could have returned to this spot later once identified hunters there... survey during a season and direct impact of anyone on the ground is just bad form...Once you start if you break the pattern you will have to re-survey the entire area over. As a participant in the funding of WDFW I would much rather they disrupt a few hunters then re-spend thousands of dollars to re-survey an area! Not to mention they take aerial photos of species they are not surveying quite often. It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting.Your indoctrination to the dark side is complete..... JK, sort of. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my argument. Of course anything can be misconstrued when taken out of context or in this case explained improperly. A great example of why I should be working on my dissertation proposal instead of playing devil's advocate on here.Maybe this will sum it up better. They are not able to leave the unit they are surveying as suggested by the OP. If they were to go this route they will have to start over. Small deviations to circle the group, or take photos to verify count are acceptable. Anytime you survey mobile species you have to have a consistent repeatable way to measure.I have seen this on several occasions, and sometimes it does appear they are chasing as the elk will run in the direction of travel trying to escape the aerial assault.Quote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:48:08 PM"It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting."Other than the fact that we are not in helicopters buzzing them, IDENTICAL. Just because Joe Smoe on the internet said so, IT MUST BE TRUE!! I am sure that anything flying lower than 1,000 feet over an elk could be construed as BUZZING, it all relative based on the observer.Brandon
Quote from: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 02:53:57 PMQuote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:40:18 PMLuv2hunt, you seem to be defending WDFW based on your experience in Wildlife Ecology, but then your own words show that WDFW was in the wrong by deviating from their grid pattern to chase these elk. Generally a grid pattern is required to get an accurate count. It is not just flying around at their discretion.Quote from: birddogdad on Today at 10:40:51 AMQuote from: luvtohnt on Today at 10:04:58 AMIs anyone in this thread aware of how a helicopter survey fro deer is done?Brandonif they are surveying DEER, why were they counting and documenting the ELK?? sounds a bit off.. also I don't buy the "cant do it out of hunting season" angle of the response.. generally, the reply demonstrates a lack of care for interaction with hunters based on some needed data collection.. lots of area in the grid and could have returned to this spot later once identified hunters there... survey during a season and direct impact of anyone on the ground is just bad form...Once you start if you break the pattern you will have to re-survey the entire area over. As a participant in the funding of WDFW I would much rather they disrupt a few hunters then re-spend thousands of dollars to re-survey an area! Not to mention they take aerial photos of species they are not surveying quite often. It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting.Your indoctrination to the dark side is complete..... JK, sort of. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my argument. Of course anything can be misconstrued when taken out of context or in this case explained improperly. A great example of why I should be working on my dissertation proposal instead of playing devil's advocate on here.Maybe this will sum it up better. They are not able to leave the unit they are surveying as suggested by the OP. If they were to go this route they will have to start over. Small deviations to circle the group, or take photos to verify count are acceptable. Anytime you survey mobile species you have to have a consistent repeatable way to measure.I have seen this on several occasions, and sometimes it does appear they are chasing as the elk will run in the direction of travel trying to escape the aerial assault.Quote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:48:08 PM"It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting."Other than the fact that we are not in helicopters buzzing them, IDENTICAL. Just because Joe Smoe on the internet said so, IT MUST BE TRUE!! I am sure that anything flying lower than 1,000 feet over an elk could be construed as BUZZING, it all relative based on the observer.BrandonExcept there are pictures...Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Quote from: grundy53 on December 08, 2015, 02:58:42 PMQuote from: luvtohnt on December 08, 2015, 02:53:57 PMQuote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:40:18 PMLuv2hunt, you seem to be defending WDFW based on your experience in Wildlife Ecology, but then your own words show that WDFW was in the wrong by deviating from their grid pattern to chase these elk. Generally a grid pattern is required to get an accurate count. It is not just flying around at their discretion.Quote from: birddogdad on Today at 10:40:51 AMQuote from: luvtohnt on Today at 10:04:58 AMIs anyone in this thread aware of how a helicopter survey fro deer is done?Brandonif they are surveying DEER, why were they counting and documenting the ELK?? sounds a bit off.. also I don't buy the "cant do it out of hunting season" angle of the response.. generally, the reply demonstrates a lack of care for interaction with hunters based on some needed data collection.. lots of area in the grid and could have returned to this spot later once identified hunters there... survey during a season and direct impact of anyone on the ground is just bad form...Once you start if you break the pattern you will have to re-survey the entire area over. As a participant in the funding of WDFW I would much rather they disrupt a few hunters then re-spend thousands of dollars to re-survey an area! Not to mention they take aerial photos of species they are not surveying quite often. It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting.Your indoctrination to the dark side is complete..... JK, sort of. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my argument. Of course anything can be misconstrued when taken out of context or in this case explained improperly. A great example of why I should be working on my dissertation proposal instead of playing devil's advocate on here.Maybe this will sum it up better. They are not able to leave the unit they are surveying as suggested by the OP. If they were to go this route they will have to start over. Small deviations to circle the group, or take photos to verify count are acceptable. Anytime you survey mobile species you have to have a consistent repeatable way to measure.I have seen this on several occasions, and sometimes it does appear they are chasing as the elk will run in the direction of travel trying to escape the aerial assault.Quote from: lokidog on December 08, 2015, 02:48:08 PM"It is no different than you or I taking a picture of an elk while deer hunting."Other than the fact that we are not in helicopters buzzing them, IDENTICAL. Just because Joe Smoe on the internet said so, IT MUST BE TRUE!! I am sure that anything flying lower than 1,000 feet over an elk could be construed as BUZZING, it all relative based on the observer.BrandonExcept there are pictures...Sent from my E6782 using TapatalkYeah, pictures of WDFW surveying from a helicopter that's great, but I don't see evidence they were doing anything other than a prescribed survey.
