Ethical to shoot past 400 yards at elk w/AR15 based rifle? Yes/No

[JDHasty]

How about at mule deer at ranges closing on 500 yards? 

Notice I say AR15 based rifle and in this I explicitly want to not include AR10 based rifles that handle 308 Winchester based cartridges in this discussion. 

AR15 based rifles handle cartridges that are based on native cartridge brass that ranges in size UP to 7.62X39 or 30 Remington. 

What say you?

I didnt read anything about novice Hunter's in your original post. That came in later when the thread didn't lean the way you would have liked it to.
P
Along with the wind, rest, etc, etc, etc..

Let me just state that I don't think you are doing your cause of advocating for the AR15 as a viable platform by not qualifying what you are advocating.  I am not adverse to expert shots/experienced hunters shooting an effective cartridge at deer or elk that they have confidence they can kill AND they also recognize that wind, rest etc play a part in complicating making that perfect shot not only possible, but HIGHLY likely.  Giving the impression that an average sportsman is equipped to make long range kills on big game animals with an AR15 based cartridge is not only possible, but likely, is not something I would suggest is responsible to advocate on behalf of.

Your complete original post is directed at shots "I"/ "We" have already made.This whole thread is based on a dead deer at 496 yards and a dead elk at 411 yards with the 6.5 Grendel based AR. It not only can be done it has been done.

And in the 1960's O'Brein killed brown bear with a 17 caliber rifle, as well as moose, elk and IIRC African plains game.  Does that make it reasonable to suggest that it is reasonable to suggest that a 17 is a good choice for an average sportsman to hunt brown bear with?

Maybe he should have asked you before he took that shot! 

He and his fellow 17 caliber enthusiasts, Ackley, Atkinson of A&M Rifles fame among them wrote many articles and answered many letters in magazines back then and they were very diligent in making certain to qualify what they were advocating on behalf of.  They made it clear that the average sportsman had no business trying to emulate them, unless and until, they had developed the skills that they have.     

[dontgetcrabs]

How about at mule deer at ranges closing on 500 yards? 

Notice I say AR15 based rifle and in this I explicitly want to not include AR10 based rifles that handle 308 Winchester based cartridges in this discussion. 

AR15 based rifles handle cartridges that are based on native cartridge brass that ranges in size UP to 7.62X39 or 30 Remington. 

What say you?

Absolutely YES!!!  And that's not opinion it indeed is FACT!!!  Now move along.   

[Biggerhammer]

Here's your exact quote. When it came to my post about killing a Mulie with one shot from a 6.5 Grendel at 496 yards. I don't feel as if you are directing that at just "Novice Hunter's"


Here's your post JD.

"Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period. "

[JDHasty]

How about at mule deer at ranges closing on 500 yards? 

Notice I say AR15 based rifle and in this I explicitly want to not include AR10 based rifles that handle 308 Winchester based cartridges in this discussion. 

AR15 based rifles handle cartridges that are based on native cartridge brass that ranges in size UP to 7.62X39 or 30 Remington. 

What say you?

Absolutely YES!!!  And that's not opinion it indeed is FACT!!!  Now move along.

Black and white, unqualified and IMHO an opinion that is not based on anything other than possibly having limited experience being in the field with hunters of all skill and experience levels.  And don't tell anyone who is interested in exploring this topic in depth when to move along.  You are not the arbitor who gets to decide when others have read every point of view they wish to consider.   

[JDHasty]

Here's your exact quote. When it came to my post about killing a Mulie with one shot from a 6.5 Grendel at 496 yards. I don't feel as if you are directing that at just "Novice Hunter's"


Here's your post JD.

"Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period. "

You are justified in taking umbrage at that statement.  It was unqualified and far to all encompassing and I should have been more judicious in my choice of words before making that blanket statement.

Can you appreciate my position that few people have any business, given their current experience and skill level have any business considering the 6.5G a long range deer and elk cartridge and consider the fact that I don't think you are doing your cause or the person looking for advice  any favors when posting things that make it look like the 6.5G is a good option for a novice and if they go that route they are justified at taking shots at an elk that is closing on a quarter mile and deer out past that range.   

[Biggerhammer]

We could both agree that most of your posts here could have been avoided if I would have just posted that quote earlier and set the table right out of the gate.

[coachcw]

Actually the 6.5 is a better choice for long range if your inexperienced  since its such a stable bullet...if they miss due to drop then the animal just walks off.

[dontgetcrabs]

Actually the 6.5 is a better choice for long range if your inexperienced  since its such a stable bullet...if they miss due to drop then the animal just walks off.

Yep and almost no recoil. Excellent choice for new or young hunters.

[bobcat]

What's the velocity with that 6.5?

[dontgetcrabs]

What's the velocity with that 6.5?

I get 2490 with factory 123 sst and an 18" barrel. 1860 fps and just over 940 lbs energy at 400 yards.

[Biggerhammer]

Funny how guys that have no clue how to shoot distance constantly dote over numbers. Deads, dead.. Bang Flop! What's there to discuss. Go do your thing a we will do ours.

[bobcat]

What's the velocity with that 6.5?

I get 2490 with factory 123 sst and an 18" barrel. Just over 940 lbs energy at 400 yards.

Thanks.

Knowing that, I can't see that being a 400 yard elk rifle. Would be marginal on deer at that range.

300 yards would be a good max range for that cartridge, in my opinion. Again that's my opinion only, don't want to argue.

Not saying it couldn't kill an elk at 500 yards. It probably could, just like an elk could be killed at 100 yards with a 22 long rifle.

[zike]

Okay, so forgive me if this has already been said, but what's the furthest shot any of you would take on an elk with your AR-15?

I don't consider my 6.8 Rem an elk gun. I belong to the bigger is better for elk. My 340  or 300 win mag were my go to rifles for elk. I have been carrying my AR10 in .308 for a couple of years now but I haven't used it on an elk yet. I just like a biggerhammer for big game.

[JDHasty]

Actually the 6.5 is a better choice for long range if your inexperienced  since its such a stable bullet...if they miss due to drop then the animal just walks off.

Yep and almost no recoil. Excellent choice for new or young hunters.

That is something I do not agree with.  IMHO if you are shooting at big game at long range with a cartridge with trajectory like the 6.5G you have absolutely no business without a laser range finder and a scope with target knobs.  If you miss due to undershooting in that situation then it follows that it is you who botched the shot and that to me implies that the bullet could be right or left or high as well.  If right or left means a shoulder shot then all of my observations are valid.  What is more, if you dialed in a minute of angle of windage after taking a wind reading where you are shooting from and the wind is blowing the opposite direction most of the way to the animal that means your inexperienced hunter's perfect shot lands about nine inches laterally - either in the shoulder or in the liver.  In the case of a shoulder hit, the 6.5G with the light 6.5 bullets used in it lack the sectional density and mass to have sufficient momentum to break down a large deer or elk hit in the shoulder.   

[Karl Blanchard]

What's the velocity with that 6.5?

I get 2490 with factory 123 sst and an 18" barrel. 1860 fps and just over 940 lbs energy at 400 yards.

To put that in perspective, my .243 pushing a 105gr VLD @ 2820fps.  Range was 500.  Bullet made jelly of his insides and I did get an exit.  That's numbers AND real world results.  That's a smaller projectile hitting with less energy than dontgetcrabs 6.5.