Opinions please. Lab/Golden mix.

[jackson7]

No.
maybe a rehoming fee. will be interesting to see if they sell.

[runamuk]

A "mixed litter?"  Are you really saying these puppies are a Labrador Retriever / Golden Retriever mix? It seems odd to me that a professional breeder would do that. Was it intentional?

I also wonder if this is simply a "mixed litter" of yellow and black Lab puppies.

A little more information;

This was an intentional breeding between a papered lab and a papered Golden. As I understand it the goal was to produce service dogs.

They are asking $800.  I don't doubt that the pups would make great pets but I have a problem paying that kind of money for a "designer breed"

My dad got one of those for free she is a nut and also 10 now and still a nut.  that said I am a purebred dog proponent the only thing you mentioned that would make me consider paying was if the dogs truly have had all their health clearances.  Otherwise these are just mutts and all the fancy designer names and stories of service dog potential etc is sales pitch same as used in car lots.

[lokidog]

As much "fun" as it might be cross some different dog breeds to see what you get, in this case it seems like a waste of effort.  Both purebred labs and purebred goldens can make great service dogs. If either of these lines was lacking something needed to be a good service dog, crossing them with a different breed probably won't solve anything.   

Having said that, if both lines have good hunting/companion backgrounds, and their health checks are good, $800 might not be a bad price as purebred goldens are mostly going upwards of $1200, not sure what lab prices are, but would guess comparable.

[wildweeds]

Sorry folks, say what they want, a breeder wouldn't do this kind of thing puposefully.  While similar dogs in appearance and color they are still dropper mutts or bucket pups. Meaning they should have been thrown in a bucket of ice water upon hitting the whelping box. At best they are 100 dollar pups IMO. Anyone who shells out 800 for one is a fool.

[Firedogg]

Both breeds make great service dogs on their own, I've gotten to work with both, so it does not make any sense to do this on purpose. It makes even less sense to be asking a premium price like that.
  If lineage on both sides is completely healthy, then half what they are asking would be the "premium" price, but seems more like a $2-250 investment in one with the right temperment would be appropriate.

[fieldandstream]

As a disabled individual and scientist who has depended on service dogs due to blindness and other disabilities, I feel the desire to reply to this post. I think I might know which ad the original writer of the post is talking about, although I am not 100% sure... if I am right, the sire was a golden retriever with clearances for eyes, heart, hips (OFA done twice excellent and good), elbows, and DNA... with 5 generations of good to excellent hips along with generations of working dogs in the pedigree and the sire was trained himself. The dam had OFA hips good and Penn Hip'd 70%, elbows normal, eyes and heart normal, EIC and CNM clear on both alleles and had been in training as well with a long healthy pedigree. Having known plenty of dogs that have been donated or purchased for service work in the past by others that were not healthy, or not of good temperament, I would say this litter was an outstanding option for a service dog or family dog based on history. The litter was intentional. The breeder offered training gift certificates to a professional trainer with each pup, and had all shots, microchip, worming, dewclaws, check ups done by a veterinarian prior to the puppies going home, gave a puppy care kit, book, training DVD and more to each new owner. One pup was donated at no charge to service work as the breeder does with each litter. Based on the history of pricing of a good dog, they were well below the average cost for a dog like that at $800. Finding a healthy, smart, trainable dog to pass a real service training program is difficult. Service dogs include dogs for mobility, vision, hearing, developmental disabilities, diabetic alert, seizure alert, and psychiatric support. They are trained to “provide work or perform tasks related to an individual’s disability.” When accompanied by a service dog, the individual with a disability is afforded some public access protections (Parenti, Foreman, Meade, & Wirth, 2013). Current demand for service dogs outweighs supply (M. Winkle, Crowe, & Hendrix, 2012), and average wait times of up to three years for a well-trained dog are not uncommon. Service dogs are generally trained for a minimum of 18 months, and training can cost anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 (Allen & Blascovich, 1996). According to some estimates, only 50% of dogs entering training progress to the level of service dog (Batt, Batt, Baguley, & McGreevy, 2008), meaning half or more fail to pass the program, increasing the cost of training and limiting the number of available dogs. Hereditary diseases and behavioral problems are the most common reasons for a dog to be released from a training program (Wahl, Herbst, Clark, Tsai, & Murphy, 2008). The Golden Retriever x Labrador Retriever crosses have been studied by the service industry for some time, studies show this cross has a higher graduation rate from service training as guide dogs than either the purebred lab or purebred golden and german shepherds the first time through (rather that going back through training again). I love my old 12 year old service dog now in retirement and her replacement 13 month old at the tail end of training as my up and coming service dog. I thank God every day for a terrific, smart, gentle, healthy friend that patiently helps me everyday. Hope that helps.

1) Lara S. Batt, Marjolyn S. Batt, John A. Baguley, Paul D. McGreevy, Factors associated with success in guide dog training, Journal of Veterinary Behavior (2008) 3, 143-151
2) Selecting Quality Service Dogs
Part 1: Morphological and Health Considerations
Lindsay Parenti, MA, BCBA, Matthew Wilson, PhD, Anne M. Foreman, PhD, Oliver Wirth, PhD, and B. Jean Meade, DVM, MD, MPH, PhD
3) Genetics, behavior, and puppy temperament testing
Golden x Lab crosses were most likely to graduate after the normal training period, but success rates of Goldens and German Shepherds were higher if they were passed back and thus had a longer training period. Dogs that were passed back for behavioral reasons were ...
4) You can learn more about the genetics of dogs in ICB's online courses. Visit our Facebook Groups ICB Institute of Canine Biology ...the latest canine news and research ICB Breeding for the Future ...the science of animal breeding 

[trophyhunt]

Personally, I don't think I would pay the same (I also wouldn't charge the same if it was my litter) for a "mix" as I would for a pure breed from good stock and proven hunting/trial lines. You would likely get a great dog, but....   

If it is a reputable breeder they wouldn't charge the same. You could very well end up with a great dog, but for them to charge the same price as a papered full bred pup, just not right.

[jackelope]

The price of dogs is a little crazy to me, especially mixed breeds. Heck, we paid $300+ to adopt a dog. I don't understand why someone would cross goldens and labs to make a better service dog. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure a lab/golden cross would be a great dog, but I'm also sure it's not a dog that should be sold for $800 regardless of how certified or OFA clear they are.
 

[Curly]

Great post, fieldandstream.....and footnotes to back up facts.

[lokidog]

The price of dogs is a little crazy to me, especially mixed breeds. Heck, we paid $300+ to adopt a dog. I don't understand why someone would cross goldens and labs to make a better service dog. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure a lab/golden cross would be a great dog, but I'm also sure it's not a dog that should be sold for $800 regardless of how certified or OFA clear they are.
 

I think Fieldandstream addressed this cross issue quite well... "The Golden Retriever x Labrador Retriever crosses have been studied by the service industry for some time, studies show this cross has a higher graduation rate from service training as guide dogs than either the purebred lab or purebred golden and german shepherds the first time through (rather that going back through training again)."

Great post, fieldandstream.....and footnotes to back up facts.

   And, welcome to the site!

[follow maggie]

That was a geat post by fieldandstream, taught me something.  Guss I met my learning quota for the week!

[TVHunts]

Excellent post FieldandStream.

Yes, good proven dog prices are over the top.  My dog was 1200 nearly 6 years ago.  She is a purebread yellow lab with red fox color. Knowing the dog I have now I would easily pay double the price for her.  She is my hunting partner, awesome family dog and I wouldn't trade her for anything. I can't put a price on how she greets me every day of her life and helps fulfill our life in general.

Is 800 too much?  Who knows?  If it turns out to be a stellar hunting partner and family dog then no, to me it isn't too much.

Golden Lab crosses are out there.  I know people who have done it intentionally and then did it again as their dog was up in age.  They have been great hunting and family dogs.  I personally don't see a thing wrong with it or with buying one.  They are both awesome breeds.   :twocents

[Happy Gilmore]

OK, LABS AND GOLDENS ARE TWO DIFFERENT BREEDS. You are not a scientist but a dumb dumb if you think you are improving the breed by intentionally mixing two.

The years and history of good hips is thrown out the window when you cross breed. The good hips for years in one dog can be erased in one genetic sequencing by mix breeding. Pure bred breeding allows "some" greater control of things such as bad hips.

Do not be convinced by the snake oil salesman that his mix breeding is better than the dogs which took a nearly 200 years to get to the point they are at in good qualities.

Typically, when you cross breed you end up doubling up the bad qualities. If this breeding was intentional you are dealing with some folks who are delusional and if you believe what they tell you about it, you need to talk to some experienced folks you trust and do more research on the subject.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0115_040115_tvdesignerdogs_2.html


Giving a good accident bred pup a home, knowing both parents are retrievers? that could be a good fit. Knowingly paying someone for their science experiment in their basement? that's crazy.

[Happy Gilmore]

I did a research paper on crossbreed dogs in college, not that it really means anything but in my little opinion some crossbreed dogs are very much worth it, if you know what you're getting into. I'm not really talking about the "designer dogs" per se, even though they do fall into the same category. The biggest appeal for crossbreed dogs is the health of the dog.

A crossbreed dog would be two purebred papered dogs having a litter, so the pups are exactly 50/50 mix ("F1", first generation), it's very different when you then breed a mix to a mix and in that case you lose the health advantage.

If you have one lineage of a breed that's prone to a certain disorder/disease (maybe hip dysplasia) and you breed it with another breed who has never had a history of that disorder then you essentially can almost bet your puppy will be healthy. They won't both have the recessive gene their lineage carries. Takes research though, but its a huge advantage if you are wanting a healthy pet, and not a show dog (and also, spay or neuter!).. but on the flip side I'd never buy a crossbreedXcrossbreed puppy, they potentially carry ALL recessive genes from both lineage and could be a disaster so always buy an F1.

what school taught you genetics work like this? To start, there is no genetic marker for it. It can pop up in any breeding no matter how many times it has had OFA's done. There is no recessive gene which we have identified. Our current most accurate way of identifying it is X-Rays. not a real new breakthrough technology. Some disorders such as PRA, EIC and DM have identifiable genetic markers. With these markers present we can identify normal, carriers or affected in some cases. However, because a dog may be affected, it does not mean that these disorders will present an episode. So, as Smossys Grl is saying is more relevant to a situation where you may be breeding a EIC clear dog to an affected dog. This dog will produce only carriers of EIC. If you breed two carriers you can get carriers however, statistically you will get affected dogs.

Hip dysplasia doesn't work that way. Sorry. Some white papers cite that one of the few things pure bred dogs have brought to the world was a lower instance of disorders such as bad hips because of careful and thoughtful breeding. Mixed breed mutts are said to have a 67% higher chance of having hip dysplasia than other according to an actual medical study done by vets.

[Happy Gilmore]

Having supplied a few service dogs out of my own breedings, low pass rates have a lot of factors involved. Of those factors, genetics of mixed breeds have nothing to do with  the success of service dogs.

Lets not split hairs.

You see some specific service dogs who get selected from the pounds but, lets get realistic. When an agency is about to spend $10-20,000 on training they will (like anyone in a competitive dog venue like field trials) stack the deck in their favor to be successful any way possible.

They will buy pure bred dogs from kennels with a track record and history of producing successful dogs. You don't see any(ok, go find one on facebook) police departments with lab golden mixes in schutzhund training. They aint gonna pass it. So, they often go to Germany and buy really expensive dogs to put in really expensive training. If this kennel intentionally mixed a golden and a lab it would be obvious to me they have not been successful in anything and now they are trying to fool people into paying for an accidental breeding.

Run like hell from it.