.22 for defense

[Mongo Hunter]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

[huntnphool]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

 Effective for personal protection?

[Mongo Hunter]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

 Effective for personal protection?

An AR15 pistol firing 5.56x45 or 223? yes that would defiantly do the job. granted its not the optimal barrel length for that cartridge but irregardless that guy would be having a bad day...and so would your ear drums probably lol

[grundy53]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

[huntnphool]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

 5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well.

[Mongo Hunter]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

 5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well.

The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol

.22lr is not adequate period

[huntnphool]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

 5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well.

The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol

.22lr is not adequate period

 The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was.

[Mongo Hunter]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

 5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well.

The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol

.22lr is not adequate period

 The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was.

you are right they didn't specify but that's the normal caliber that people ask about considering the amount of handguns chambered in 5.7, 5.56 and .22TCM or lack there of.

[huntnphool]

Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.

The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.

 How about .22 center fire?

if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol

.22 TCM

 5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well.

The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol

.22lr is not adequate period

 The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was.

you are right they didn't specify but that's the normal caliber that people ask about considering the amount of handguns chambered in 5.7, 5.56 and .22TCM or lack there of.

 

[DOUBLELUNG]

I've never shot anyone with anything, and I no longer carry a concealed .22lr.  I have shot around 300 deer and antelope with a .22lr in a 6" barrel Ruger Mark II, nearly all with CCI stingers (32 grain hollowpoint, 1640fps published muzzle velocity).  I'd say over 200 of those were down animals I was finishing off with brain shots from a few feet away, not comparable, but I've shot a few dozen that were ambulatory with chest shots at ranges from 10 to 50 yards, further than would be typical in most self defense situations.  Nearly all were stopped with a single shot to the heart/lung region.  I remember a couple that surprised me with performance on quartering away shots, with the bullet not only exiting but shattering the offside scapula.  Numerous shots broadside both expanded and exited, leaving a wound channel 1/2-3/4" through the lungs.  Many of these were finished with brain shots, but were rendered immobile by the first.  I've shot around 100 with 00 12 gauge buckshot, under 20 yards the buckshot puts them down instantly, but beyond 20 yards, even putting 1/2 of the pellets on target, the stopping power is not much greater than a single .22lr Stinger - there is just so much greater transfer of shock with a little more velocity and projectile expansion.  Where an exit was unacceptable (urban areas with no safe backstop), I would shoot ambulatory cripples with a standard velocity round nose lead 40 grain from the same pistol.  The difference in effect is truly remarkable, the animals almost never go down, but will trot or walk off, find a spot to lay down, and will expire from internal blood loss anywhere from 5-20 minutes later.  Without expansion the trauma and wound channel are minimal.

Also perhaps worth noting, on rabbits, hares and forest grouse, I find the stopping power much less (as well as meat damage) shooting them with .38 round nose solids than .22lr hollowpoints.  The Stinger stops them instantly, the RN .38 pokes a neat hole through with minimal trauma, and they often go several feet or yards before expiring.  I would carry a .22lr loaded with Stingers in favor of .38spl solids, based on my experience, and my first CCW was just that.

Fortunately, there are better options now, without sacrificing weight or concealment, so my CCWs of choice now are .380s or .38+p with quality HP ammunition.

I would also note that there is tons of research out there on one-shot stops by caliber and bullet, and that results are positively correlated with caliber, velocity and terminal performance.  However, when researchers investigating actual street performance collect as much data as possible on each individual shooting and run multivariate analyses on the data, the number one variable in determining one-shot stop performance ALWAYS is shot placement, not caliber.  That shouldn't be surprising, as that is also the number one factor we see in rendering big game animals to possession by hunters.

I truly believe that frequent practice and proficiency with your CCW, to the point you can shoot with reasonable accuracy instinctually (draw and fire without pausing and shoot until empty, with all shots on target at 25 feet), is the most effective concealed carry option.  I'd rather be shot at with a 1911 by a guy who has only ever fired a handful of shots, than a .22 fired by someone who has put thousands of rounds through it.  One of the most impressive shooting performances I've seen was by a Wyoming resident who awoke to a cougar attacking his chained German shepherd.  Barefoot in the snow, half asleep and with the light of an overhead porch light, he took 11 shots rapidfire at the cat at ranges of 22 to 25 yards with a Ruger semiauto .22lr pistol.  The scene confirmed his description that the cat sprinted off the dog at the first shot.  He hit the cat 9 times in what was probably less than 3 seconds, I guarantee that guy would be lethal in a self defense situation with any familiar handgun.

IMHO, proficiency with a larger caliber is a better choice, but if you are carrying for self defense, your best choice is the handgun with which the shooter is most proficient.           

[jasnt]

Very well put double lung

[HighlandLofts]

I shot one of the Rock Island Arms 22TCM pistols, It impressed me enough that I will be buying one down the road. The fifteen round magazine for the rifle fits the pistol as well.

If I were to carry a 22 caliber handgun, this would be one to consider.

Today whil at Puget Sound lock & Gun Shop on Grove Street Marysville I was talking to Frank about the 22TCM and he had a magazine article anot a new slide in 22TCM that fits on a Glock.

Now that sparked my interest more, I have to check in to this slide and a set of reloading dies.

I was really impressed with this round, a 22 caliber bullet mounted on a 9mm case. A 22 on steroids, a possible carry round.

[brew]

just want to say that the OP was for a 22 for defense...not could it kill something with enough rounds put into it...hell if i was hit by a car and slung into a ditch someone could probably put me down eventually with a wrist rocket...sure if all you have to protect yourself is 36 grains than ok but if you're gonna pack at least have something that can do the job and not tick someone off.....

[huntingfool7]

just want to say that the OP was for a 22 for defense...not could it kill something with enough rounds put into it...hell if i was hit by a car and slung into a ditch someone could probably put me down eventually with a wrist rocket...sure if all you have to protect yourself is 36 grains than ok but if you're gonna pack at least have something that can do the job and not tick someone off.....

Bigger is better if you put it on target.  That said, if you think perps are just going to drop when you put a 9 or a 45 in them, take a look at the videos of real shootings.  With pistol rounds, one shot stops are not the norm they are the exception.  I have a friend that has been in four shootings using a 9, 45 and 357.  All of the bad guys took multiple hits and didn't go down on the spot without following them up.  Some of those lived to see a prosecutor. 

[JDHasty]

First shot and down.  If you are ever in that situation recoil doesn't factor in.  And today you can buy a 40 that is small enough to lug around.  A 22, like anyone in their right mind would consider, is lethal.... in a matter of time.  An attacker can close twenty yards in a quarter of that time and press home an attack.  Will a 22 stop an attack?  Don't bet your life on the answer to that question. 

I carry a Colt Officer in 45 ACP.  It will let me decide when the fun and games have run their course and will close the deal.  I Guarandamntee it.  My life may depend on that statement some day and I am perfectly comfortable making it.  I also have a couple Smith 13's stashed in the RV and house and they are also perfectly capable of letting me be the one who gets to decide if and when the party is over.  At that point further discussion is superfluous and the party is over.  Me 1, bad guy zero is the score and all that is left is me still being in a position to sit back and let the proper authorities sort out the particulars.   If you need shot, you need stopped, you don't need to somebody playing patty cake w/you.