North Cascade Grizzly Bear Meeting in Darrington 5/14

[Tbar]

I for one am stoked at the possibility of having grizzlies here. I like feeling like I'm not necessarily top of the food chain. People pay big money to hunt in AK for that "wild" experience. Also we already have lions here.

We already have them. I'm glad you're stoked. So was that guy up in AK who thought he and they understood each other. I think his family got a rib cage back.

If this were just about grizzlies, I'd be OK with it. But it's not. And, it's not about a natural balance, either. For millions of years, man has been part of the natural balance of nature. There are forces at play here which seek to remove man from the natural balance and those forces have the ear of the USFWS and WDFW. If you can't see that, you're not looking.

First of all you don't know me, so don't go comparing me to whoever you are referring to who got himself eaten. Secondly I never said anything about a natural balance either. I'm not foolish enough to think that we will ever get back to any semblance of a natural balance if there ever was one. I'm also acutely aware of the politics at play and the interest groups involved, I choose however to not to engage in the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy going on, and instead focus my efforts on recruiting new hunters and getting people stoked on being outside. I don't think it makes me any less of a hunter or a person for that matter simply because I like the idea of another large predator roaming around. Call me naive but I'm excited for the possibility of one day going on a North Cascades brown bear hunt.

How does Grizzly recovery (or wolf recovery) help new hunter recruitment? The same people are pushing both agendas.  Have you looked at reproduction rates and the plan you are acutely aware of?  I don't think my great grand kids will hunt a grizzly if their plan goes as desired.

[konradcountry]

I for one am stoked at the possibility of having grizzlies here. I like feeling like I'm not necessarily top of the food chain. People pay big money to hunt in AK for that "wild" experience. Also we already have lions here.

So move to Alaska. The revenue from bear tags is nothing compared to all the costs of having to deal with them. Not to mention it's just another predator that will feed on fawns.

In many parts of Alaska you will find people fishing with loaded shotguns because of the grizzlies. People shouldn't have to take shotguns with them just to fish. Read some of the stories about how hard these things can be to take down.

One of those things is going to maul a hiker and urban environmentalists will tell us that they just need more room. That means closing off GMUs so they can hunt.

This is all part of an unhealthy urban philosophical outlook that tries to pretend that nature once had a perfect state and we need to go back and try to recreate it. The reality is that animals get pushed out of their habitats by competitors and that was happening before man. Just look at what has happened with the spotted owl. Entire communities were decimated and the owl population is still in decline.

What these environmentalists want is to close off as much nature as possible. As with the spotted owl it's not even about the species, it's about putting up fences to keep people out.

[KFhunter]

We're going to get more grizz whether or not they're helped along the road.  Grizz and wolves are almost symbiotic

[heronblu]

Obviously I'm in the minority with my thinking here. I'm not some city boy environmentalist with a dream of perfect natural harmony. I do not think that species exterpation has ever been a good policy however and if you looked at how this country has managed game in the past you'll note that the word "policy" is an apt one. Also on a side note, it's pretty funny reading the words of grown men scared to go outside because of a bear. I know I'm stirring the pot, but I'm just tired of seeing the same bs spouted on here about people's hatred towards predators and the supposed anti conspiracy.  Just keep an open mind,  read a book written by an actual biologist and close your mouth once in a while. I'm out. ..

[pianoman9701]

I for one am stoked at the possibility of having grizzlies here. I like feeling like I'm not necessarily top of the food chain. People pay big money to hunt in AK for that "wild" experience. Also we already have lions here.

We already have them. I'm glad you're stoked. So was that guy up in AK who thought he and they understood each other. I think his family got a rib cage back.

If this were just about grizzlies, I'd be OK with it. But it's not. And, it's not about a natural balance, either. For millions of years, man has been part of the natural balance of nature. There are forces at play here which seek to remove man from the natural balance and those forces have the ear of the USFWS and WDFW. If you can't see that, you're not looking.

First of all you don't know me, so don't go comparing me to whoever you are referring to who got himself eaten. Secondly I never said anything about a natural balance either. I'm not foolish enough to think that we will ever get back to any semblance of a natural balance if there ever was one. I'm also acutely aware of the politics at play and the interest groups involved, I choose however to not to engage in the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy going on, and instead focus my efforts on recruiting new hunters and getting people stoked on being outside. I don't think it makes me any less of a hunter or a person for that matter simply because I like the idea of another large predator roaming around. Call me naive but I'm excited for the possibility of one day going on a North Cascades brown bear hunt.

Then, with all due respects, you're not paying attention. These programs are being pushed by the same groups which oppose hunting of any kind - HSUS, DOW, etc. It's not a coincidence. It's a structured and well-planned strategy to end hunting. This isn't a conspiracy theory. It's happening and has been for some time. That doesn't mean I don't think there can be any predators. It means that predators should be planned and managed in such a way as to continue to allow hunters to be the main tool of wildlife management in controlling populations. That's absolutely NOT what's happening now in WA.

The outrageous wolf plan is far too aggressive for a state of our size and population. In addition, not only is the state holding back information on the real-time reporting of packs and their locations, the plan was structured in such a way as to avoid delisting for as long as possible, or perhaps forever. This isn't Montana or Wyoming or Idaho where a majority of the people see hunting as a necessary and healthy tradition. This is WA where the people deciding the fate of our outdoor traditions and our wildlife live in places where they're hardly exposed to the repercussions of their actions. These are people who don't think humans should be allowed in large tracts of our country, at all.

[huntnphool]

I for one am stoked at the possibility of having grizzlies here. I like feeling like I'm not necessarily top of the food chain. People pay big money to hunt in AK for that "wild" experience. Also we already have lions here.

We already have them. I'm glad you're stoked. So was that guy up in AK who thought he and they understood each other. I think his family got a rib cage back.

If this were just about grizzlies, I'd be OK with it. But it's not. And, it's not about a natural balance, either. For millions of years, man has been part of the natural balance of nature. There are forces at play here which seek to remove man from the natural balance and those forces have the ear of the USFWS and WDFW. If you can't see that, you're not looking.

Call me naive but I'm excited for the possibility of one day going on a North Cascades brown bear hunt.

 

[Skyvalhunter]

[ Call me naive but I'm excited for the possibility of one day going on a North Cascades brown bear hunt.

I will bite and call you naïve, you obviously have no idea what introducing or allowing grizzly bears to run amok will cause. Have you not been following what happened in MT as an example? By the time you will be allowed to hunt a grizzly in WA it will be too late.

[pianoman9701]

Hunting them will never happen in WA regardless of their population or their impact.

[bearpaw]

Hunting them will never happen in WA regardless of their population or their impact.

  This is the most likely reality, we are over run with cougar and bear are so thick timber companies have to kill bear to raise trees. The people of WA voted to outlaw baiting bear and using hounds for bear or cougar. I can't believe anyone would be so misguided to think the voters of WA will ever allow sport hunting of grizzly in WA. Maybe a few WDFW employees will get to shoot problem grizzlies, but Joe Hunter will not be notching grizzly tags in WA.

[thatdamguy]

Obviously I'm in the minority with my thinking here. I'm not some city boy environmentalist with a dream of perfect natural harmony. I do not think that species exterpation has ever been a good policy however and if you looked at how this country has managed game in the past you'll note that the word "policy" is an apt one. Also on a side note, it's pretty funny reading the words of grown men scared to go outside because of a bear. I know I'm stirring the pot, but I'm just tired of seeing the same bs spouted on here about people's hatred towards predators and the supposed anti conspiracy.  Just keep an open mind,  read a book written by an actual biologist and close your mouth once in a while. I'm out. ..

For someone who says they are not a city boy environmentalist you sure covered all their arguments.   I also do not believe anyone on here hates predators, they just hate the people who manage them.   

[pianoman9701]

...or don't manage them.

[Mudman]

Remember the tv show guy who thought he could hang out with the grizz with his girl?  He read a book too! (Dinner) Anyone who doesn't have a healthy respect for theses animals will suffer in the end.  I have seen griz in Wa.  They are here.  Let nature run its course itself.  Working just fine. I do fear these animals and respect their territory to avoid conflict yet am still in the woods.  Anyone who doesn't in my opinion is a fool.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I'm on the fence on the issue.  Even a recovered population there would probably be pretty low, we have ~45 of them in the Selkirks (some in WA) and they rarely ever cause any trouble.  We did have some closures, which have been really great for the elk herds.

The casades could support some bears without causing too much trouble, but its going to be costly.  I don't know if it's really necessary.

[pianoman9701]

I'd feel better about it if I could trust the WDFW to act responsibly with the program. But, they won't. They'll make a plan which is way out of whack with our state's demographics and they'll form a GBAG (maybe with a "D") made up of a couple hunters, a couple local residents, and a majority of Seattleites, university professors, and animal rights freaks, and call it a good and fair cross section of residents and affected parties. Within a very short period of time, if not immediately, you won't be able to hunt any bears in the target area, either.

[WAcoyotehunter]

That might not be too far off Pianoman.  GMU 113 does not have a spring bear hunt due to grizzly bears in the area.... but they have a fall hunt.  I'm not sure how WDFW can explain that.