Hunter facing charges after death of beloved elk named Bullwinkle

[Curly]

By giving someone permission and then when a bunch of liberals get there panties in a wad charging him even though they gave him Permission.   And shooting a tame bull isn't a crime.

Liberals.

Yeah, being tame isn't the legal issue here. If the tame bull was in 328 there would be no problem legally.

[NOCK NOCK]

 Again Curly, they never asked the only relevant question surrounding this entire case, "is it legal to kill a branched antler bull in GMU334?"

 Any other question or discussion is pure window dressing!

 Don't fall victim to their ploy of muddying the waters, nothing else in this entire case matters.

 The only question now is, will a judge/jury hold Reichert accountable for not knowing first hand if he could or could not kill a branched antler bull in that unit, claiming ignorance as his defense. "They told me they got permission from WDFW"

Is that a viable excuse?

 

My question is......So if TR gets off/found "innocent", Does he get to keep the antlers?
It is an undeniable fact that the bull was shot in a closed unit. IMO, he should not be allowed to keep it. Allowing him to keep it does not seem fair no matter what the reasoning is to find him "innocent", and will only help to promote similar wrongdoings in the future.
Anyone who has watched the reality warden shows has seen that some times the animal/antlers are confiscated but the hunter is let go without a $$ fine/summons.

[Bob33]

Has anyone heard a recording of the phone call? I know I haven't so I can say for sure that the state granted him permission to shoot the bull but as a hunter and Christian I give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's not the first and won't be the last guy the state try's to screw.

I hope the state has to pay him money lots of money.

Glad to see your Christian view of giving someone the benefit of the doubt extends to everyone, including state employees.

[Rainier10]

Actually there is another question regarding this case. Are Dave, Brian and Cody in any way culpable in the case?

Great question and if not by the WDFW I would bet TR might have an issue with them in maybe a civil case.

[Bob33]

Actually there is another question regarding this case. Are Dave, Brian and Cody in any way culpable in the case?

Great question and if not by the WDFW I would bet TR might have an issue with them in maybe a civil case.

If a friend told someone it was OK to speed, or to rob a bank, or to take an illegal drug, and he did and was caught, how is the friend legally culpable?

[Magnum_Willys]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

[Curly]

If the friend was getting paid tens of thousands of dollars and he claimed to have gotten permission but really didn't then I would hope that friend would have to at least give the money back.  But legally, that may not be the case.......although you can try to sue someone for anything these days, right?

[NOCK NOCK]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

Pretty sure it was shot the day after the phone call. That defense will not fly.

[Bob33]

If the friend was getting paid tens of thousands of dollars and he claimed to have gotten permission but really didn't then I would hope that friend would have to at least give the money back.  But legally, that may not be the case.......although you can try to sue someone for anything these days, right?

If I could sue anyone who ever gave me bad advice and win, I'd be rich.

[huntnphool]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

 Thats a nice story, but not close to the report, which I'm sure will be posted by someone at some point.

 Scroll back to #1461, that's basically what it's going to come down to.

[Alchase]

How many people on this thread harvested an elk last year. I'm thinking most of you guys are just internet jockey s who like hunters to get black eyes in media. My question is for JD and tennawayslayer and davemonti when's the last time you guys shot an elk?

I had a neighbor that got a bull every year as well, right up to when he got busted for poaching out of season bulls.

I Would never hunt with him either.

[Curly]

If the friend was getting paid tens of thousands of dollars and he claimed to have gotten permission but really didn't then I would hope that friend would have to at least give the money back.  But legally, that may not be the case.......although you can try to sue someone for anything these days, right?

If I could sue anyone who ever gave me bad advice and win, I'd be rich.

Yeah, but the guy was acting as a hunting guide.  I know the hunter is ultimately responsible for knowing the laws, but hunting guides are supposed to know the laws too.  I just think he might get sympathy saying he was relying on his hunting guide and the info the guide relayed to him regarding the phone calls with wdfw.  I'm not sure if the fact that there is no licensing requirements for hunting guides in this state matters at all though.   Because without a hunting guide licensing requirement, then is it just like a friend giving advice?

Personally, I have little sympathy.  TR should have been the one to call if he was unsure of the law.  I'm not sure why the questions about firearm restrictions anyway.  If they thought it was legal to kill the bull in that unit but were just unsure about using a modern rifle, why not just use the ML without even asking?  It's not like it was a hard stalk on the bull to get in range............

[Rainier10]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

 Thats a nice story, but not close to the report, which I'm sure will be posted by someone at some point.

 Scroll back to #1461, that's basically what it's going to come down to.

The report however is not the holy grail.  I am sure there is a side to the story that hasn't been seen just yet.  The scenario above could be his defense and he could have something that backs it up.  I would have thought it would be in the report but still the report is just one view of the events. My guess is during negotiations more information will be presented on the defense side of things.

[huntnphool]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

 Thats a nice story, but not close to the report, which I'm sure will be posted by someone at some point.

 Scroll back to #1461, that's basically what it's going to come down to.

The report however is not the holy grail.  I am sure there is a side to the story that hasn't been seen just yet.  The scenario above could be his defense and he could have something that backs it up.  I would have thought it would be in the report but still the report is just one view of the events. My guess is during negotiations more information will be presented on the defense side of things.

 True, however after following this and a couple other threads on the subject, I'm confident that had there been a critical piece of evidence that exonerated Richert, Kiti, 257 or one of the other Reichert apologists surely would have played that card.

[Rainier10]

Not defending anyone just thinking defense angle:

"We were after this specific trophy that we had been scouting but when we got up to the area it turns out the animal had moved across the canal and I was afraid he was outside the area we had researched and knew to be legal.   Not expecting to hunt in any nearby areas we didn't bring a copy of the game regs with us so we called the game department to get the quickest answer on whether it was legal with our tag to shoot where he had gone.  The Game Dept. guy had to look it up and called back in 15 minutes and said it was legal.  We then went and harvested this legal elk."   How penalized should we be for the States mistake ?

This could be the story...... or the defense...... ?  How will the Judge or Jury choose?

 Thats a nice story, but not close to the report, which I'm sure will be posted by someone at some point.

 Scroll back to #1461, that's basically what it's going to come down to.

The report however is not the holy grail.  I am sure there is a side to the story that hasn't been seen just yet.  The scenario above could be his defense and he could have something that backs it up.  I would have thought it would be in the report but still the report is just one view of the events. My guess is during negotiations more information will be presented on the defense side of things.

 True, however after following this and a couple other threads on the subject, I'm confident that had there been a critical piece of evidence that exonerated Richert, Kiti, 257 or one of the other Reichert apologists surely would have played that card.

You would think.  That being said this thing has taken so many twists and turns that I never saw coming I have a hard time ruling anything out at this point.

My opinion on this one has changed slightly through this whole thing, slightly one way and then back the other.

Good news is that this thing should be done within a month or two and then the debates can really get going.

There is still one more side of the story to be told and somewhere between the two stories, the report and the defense, I believe is where the truth lies.