How to train WEYCO to raise their fees?

[hoof rot]

its not because ray passed its because fall river and minot dont get nearly as many hunters these days due to the permits, been hunting there my whole life and saw the changes first hand, just my opinion.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I think weyco should charge $2k for each species hunted! 

[Bullkllr]

I never really considered the effect of the quota on people.  Of course like everything else here, its just too many people trying to do the something at the same time.   

You will when you can't get a permit that you want.

That's the end game for all of us, sooner or later, unfortunately.

[Goshawk]

I've said this before, but the thing is, in the case of the Vail tree farm, before the access permit system began, there was almost no access allowed year around. The only exception was three or four weekends that they would open the gates for modern firearm deer season. That was it!

Oh, and yes, you could walk in, but with the huge amount of area that tree farm takes up, and with no camping allowed, the majority of it was not accessible. So access is actually much improved from what it used to be, and if the price remains at $300, I think it's a good deal for those who can make use of the year around, drive in access.

Not that I see this whole access by permit only being a good thing for hunting overall. It's definitely not. I'm just saying in this case, the Vail tree farm is providing much more opportunity for hunting than it did in the past, even if it is limited to only 800 permit holders.

It was wide open when I was living in Roy in the 60's and 70's.  We could drive over the nisqually river by passing up Tule Lake, off of the end of Harts Lake Loop Road, or Pole Line Rd., heading south over tanawax creek, then over that huge log bridge that crossed the Nisqually River. Turn East and travel along the river.  Several roads all heading into Vale were there and open.  Of course you had to watch out for off road log trucks; Dang they were huge!  Keep pushing south east and you came to the duck and goose lakes. A little further west and newaukum river all the way down to pigeon springs, or bear canyon, Indian hole on 508, the south side of Alder lake, or the party hole where the Mashell River and Nisqually River met.  That's the ground I remember grouse, deer and yes even elk hunting on.

It like all that ground East of Eatonville and Mashell River was open for fishing, hunting, berry and mushroom picking.  It was all advertised as part of the "Private lands do the Public Good" timber tax campaign.  I never saw a closed gate unless it was an active logging area, and even then you just went to the next open gate and went around.

Do times change? Of course they do.
Can we all do a better job of helping to keep affordable public access for future generations? Heck Yes.

[DaveMonti]

I really don't see Washington being enough of a destination state for non-residents to support a significant outfitting industry.  Yes, there are some out of staters hunting in WA, but there is a reason there are very few outfitters here in this state relative to most other states with trophy populations of big game.  I'm not sure if its the cost of the licenses and tage, the lack of places that have high probability of trophy animals (relative to leased and managed lands in other states), or if the state just makes it hard on outfitters to establish a business, but WA is definitely NOT a destination state for hunters.  I'm also not sure if there are enough resident hunters that would pay a premium for an outfitter with a lease on timber company land.  I think most would rather pay to hunt Montana or a number of other states. 

Now, if the state can make money off of it, all bets are off.  Anything can happen.

[kentrek]

I think weyco should charge $2k for each species hunted! 

  I hope the prices get to the point Il never see another hunter....because that's better for me ! Maybe il be able to get a big bull some day ! 

The one thing history proves is man does its best to make things easier...hunting is no different...but when killing a big bull becomes easy...what value is left ??

Just late night rambling...

[fireweed]

The fee program is clearly a new recreation business, just like any other recreation business and it needs to start following the same rules as the little guy would.

Try this experiment.  Go to your county building and planning department with a proposal to start a recreation business on your 20 or 40 acres of timber.  Propose to do the EXACT thing Weyco is doing--rent out keys to existing forestry gates and provide access to land, rivers, and logging roads for day and overnight use...and see if your county says "you're good--You don't need to change a thing." 

Do you really thing the little guy would get away without adding handicapped accessible gates, fire hydrants, restrooms, garbage cans, signage, sales taxes, sanitation surveys, hand washing facilities.....

[bowbuild]

The thing I see here in politics as far as the presidential race is the statement "If you don't vote for Trump YOU are supporting Hillary." Those same people (even on this thread) Can't seem to see buying the permits is supporting timber companies, you will most likely continue, your choice......But don't make it sound like we are in this together...we are NOT. Your purchase of their permits is YOUR vote for the slow, but eventual end of hunting as a whole. Less access = less hunters, which in the end, traditions won't be instilled in our young. Hunters are already a minority group, shrinking that group is not in anyone's interest. I think a lot of you are very SHORT SIGHTED.

Look at England....the rich for the most part were the group that could afford these hunts, but no matter how rich you are, a simple majority of poor non-hunters through the voting process can eliminate almost anything.

[JimmyHoffa]

But hunting culture, spending, harvest, lowest cost licenses and longest seasons tend to be in the states that have controlled access.  Some of those states deer season is four-five months long with a two deer daily bag limit for a license of something like $40.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Washington to change unless it is going back to say the 80's or earlier; I just don't think the pay-for-play will be the end argument has too much evidence.

[pianoman9701]

I think a lot of people think that the so called "pay to play" is beginning of the end.  Consider this, up until a hunter makes a monetary investment to hunt, ie a permit or something similar, he has no real investment in the eyes of his political reps and other agencies beyond he cost of a license.  There is no "harm" in restricting hunting when no one can claim a legitimate loss as a result. 

Put this into perspective, who do believe would be better heard at the state house or WDFW?  Joe citizen with his feathers ruffled over being asked to pay a fee to hunt private ground or  Bob Citizen complaining that he has invested several hundred dollars a year into the states resources and feels someone owes him at least the courtesy of listening to his grievance.   

If i were the one hearing the grievance the guy who can show me he has invested in something will at least get my courtesy and time.

These are not mutually exclusive. We get it: you don't mind the fees. But, everyone's invested in hunting. We've invested in gearing and gunning up. We've invested years into scouting and locating critters. We've invested weeks of our vacation time. We've invested $100s of dollars in license fees. I repeat, for those unable to come up with 1 or more $300 fees to justify the past investment they've put in, they're just SOL. And you continue to gloss over the issue of their tax rate. Joe Citizen with his feathers ruffled isn't just torqued about the loss of access and the traditions his family have enjoyed for decades. He's torqued because he pays a full real estate tax rate and these mega-billion dollar companies pay a mere fraction of the same rate.

I'm sure you're a great guy and good hunter, Macs, but you seem to have zero empathy for people who will be stuck by this without any options, or very few, at least.

[pianoman9701]

Too much coffee already. Thanks for the discussion.

[Encore 280]

I'm not in it for the trophy bull or any bull. All I would like to do is put meat on the table. If a legal bull were to step out in front of me then that's a bonus but I'm not a trophy hunter. I don't understand how a parent or grand parent is supposed to be able to afford to take their kids or grand kids hunting anymore with such outrageous fees! If it affected the guys up in the office then you can bet your sweet azz that they'd be pitch'n a bitch big time! The whole thing is total BS!! I didn't have too much coffee either, I had my bitch flakes for breakfast. Have a nice day.

[Curly]

I agree with Fireweed, bowbuild, Pianoman, Encore280 and the others that understand that we are witnessing the end of hunting as we know it. 

And I don't drink coffee........ 


Weyco sucks........ 


I also can see that the legislature will likely do nothing about it.  The people that care about this issue are a very small minority, so in that respect I understand what Macs is talking about.  I still don't like his attitude about the issue, but I understand it too.  He probably got used to the lease type arrangements while living in Europe, but it is frustrating for those of us that have grown up being able to go hunting with friends and family on timber lands for our whole lives. 

(I'm still bitter over timber companies being allowed to hire hound hunters after the hound hunting ban that excluded average hunters from baiting and hunting with hounds.)  It was a bogus initiative that the courts should have shot-down due to more than one issue being voted on in the proposal.  And an initiative that should not even see the ballot box because it is a wildlife management issue.  (Sorry, I guess I was rambling and getting off topic a little). 

We just keep witnessing the loss of the way of life and I guess have just live with it.............but at least we can still complain about it with like minded folks on Hunt-Wa.   

[bowbuild]

But hunting culture, spending, harvest, lowest cost licenses and longest seasons tend to be in the states that have controlled access.  Some of those states deer season is four-five months long with a two deer daily bag limit for a license of something like $40.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Washington to change unless it is going back to say the 80's or earlier; I just don't think the pay-for-play will be the end argument has too much evidence.

Really? I for one ONLY buy my archery deer tag (I use to buy it all) Why would you buy a elk tag BEFORE you know if you were to (get lucky...I guess)  and get your timber company permit? This must be a loss to the state, if others follow suite?

I have not looked at how the timber company permits are set up this yr., but let me tell you....as a archer if I buy certain timber permits, you loose half the ground I paid to hunt because timber company permits don't line up with state regs. This is not a problem for rifle hunters, as far as I know.

Last, there is no wildlife management to a first come first serve permit system. If wildlife management is no concern to you so be it.