Change the 24 caliber min in washington(added poll please vote)

[Karl Blanchard]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

[Bango skank]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

If theyre not big enough to handle a legal rifle then ya, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to hunt yet.   

[Karl Blanchard]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

If theyre not big enough to handle a legal rifle then ya, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to hunt yet.   

  didn't say age I said size.  If we are gonna discriminate against kids for being small than I say that's pretty terrible thought process.

[Karl Blanchard]

All I know is I have a 223 WSSM and I do not own a 243. I'd like to let my kids use the 223 for deer, because there's virtually no recoil, and a 65 grain bullet at 3,400 feet per second will probably kill just as well as a 243 Winchester. In Wyoming it's legal, and other states as well.

Just did a search and came up with this list, it's not up to date so some states might not be correct. I updated Wyoming and Kansas.


Alabama- centerfire rifle or pistol using mushrooming ammo
Alaska- http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- http://www.agfc.com/hunting/pages/huntingregulationsdeer.aspx#Legal Hunting Equipment
California- centerfire rifles, centerfire handguns with min. 4" barrel
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Equipment
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .220 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun or muzzleloader
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- Any center-fire firearm of at least .22 caliber (excluding .22 Hornet) and having a bullet weight of at least sixty (60) grains and firing a cartridge of at least two (2) inches in overall length

  figured I'd post this again.  Apparently deer in other states aren't as tough as washingtons

[Bango skank]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

If theyre not big enough to handle a legal rifle then ya, maybe they shouldnt be allowed to hunt yet.   

  didn't say age I said size.  If we are gonna discriminate against kids for being small than I say that's pretty terrible thought process.

I didnt say anything about age either.  Its not about discrimination, when youre big enough to shoot a deer rifle you can hunt deer with a rifle.  Thats how it is.  Some kids might be bug enough at 7, some at 12.  Were all different and life isnt fair and equal for everybody.

[Bango skank]

All I know is I have a 223 WSSM and I do not own a 243. I'd like to let my kids use the 223 for deer, because there's virtually no recoil, and a 65 grain bullet at 3,400 feet per second will probably kill just as well as a 243 Winchester. In Wyoming it's legal, and other states as well.

Just did a search and came up with this list, it's not up to date so some states might not be correct. I updated Wyoming and Kansas.


Alabama- centerfire rifle or pistol using mushrooming ammo
Alaska- http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- http://www.agfc.com/hunting/pages/huntingregulationsdeer.aspx#Legal Hunting Equipment
California- centerfire rifles, centerfire handguns with min. 4" barrel
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Equipment
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .220 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun or muzzleloader
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- Any center-fire firearm of at least .22 caliber (excluding .22 Hornet) and having a bullet weight of at least sixty (60) grains and firing a cartridge of at least two (2) inches in overall length

  figured I'd post this again.  Apparently deer in other states aren't as tough as washingtons

Yeah well our deer arent tougher than vermonts, so lets allow 22lr 

[boneaddict]

The fact I can kill a deer with my pellet gun shouldn't make it legal  (unless I live in South Dakota).  Keep it the same.

[Jonathan_S]

if they opened it up to .22 center fire for deer do you know what would happen???!!! 

Yeah not much. A few would use their AR15s for brush hunting blacktail and whitetail and a few kids would get to shoot .22-250s at does in fields. Not the end of the world.

People would use their judgment, the same way most don't use a 6mm ppc for moose and grizzly.

[Bob33]

I don't see a compelling reason for change. I'm not aware of any scientific data that concludes with a high degree of confidence that larger calibers, on average, kill more quickly than smaller calibers but it seems logical to me that a larger wound channel would kill more quickly than a smaller one. If accuracy is all that matters, hunters would use a .223 on Cape Buffalo.

There are plenty of options for hunters who can't handle the recoil of a .243: small game, upland birds, waterfowl, archery gear including crossbows.

[Magnum_Willys]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

If a Ruger compact .243 is too big of a rifle for them to handle safely then they aren't old enough yet to hunt big game.  Same for bow - if they can't shoot a legal weight bow efficiently they arent ready to bow hunt. Not descrimination just safety and ethics.

[Karl Blanchard]

Possibly.  Lots of game lost to large bore too.  Not everyone can handle a 300 win.  My kids are VERY small for their age.  Trying to find a rifle with a LOP they can shoot is very challenging.  .243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

If a Ruger compact .243 is too big of a rifle for them to handle safely then they aren't old enough yet to hunt.  Same for bow - if they can't shoot a legal weight bow efficiently they arent ready to bow hunt. Not descrimination just safety and ethics.

  Not age, size.  I'd put my daughter's gun handling skills up against most on this very forum.  Just because she is small doesn't make her unsafe.   

[Karl Blanchard]

if they opened it up to .22 center fire for deer do you know what would happen???!!! 

Yeah not much. A few would use their AR15s for brush hunting blacktail and whitetail and a few kids would get to shoot .22-250s at does in fields. Not the end of the world.

People would use their judgment, the same way most don't use a 6mm ppc for moose and grizzly.

  pretty much this

[Karl Blanchard]

I don't see a compelling reason for change. I'm not aware of any scientific data that concludes with a high degree of confidence that larger calibers, on average, kill more quickly than smaller calibers but it seems logical to me that a larger wound channel would kill more quickly than a smaller one. If accuracy is all that matters, hunters would use a .223 on Cape Buffalo.

There are plenty of options for hunters who can't handle the recoil of a .243: small game, upland birds, waterfowl, archery gear including crossbows.

  we don't all hunt small game.

[yakimarcher]

if they opened it up to .22 center fire for deer do you know what would happen???!!! 

Yeah not much. A few would use their AR15s for brush hunting blacktail and whitetail and a few kids would get to shoot .22-250s at does in fields. Not the end of the world.

People would use their judgment, the same way most don't use a 6mm ppc for moose and grizzly.

Agreed!

[JimmyHoffa]

25 caliber handgun with a 4 inch barrel is legal but a 22-250 with a 60 grain bullet at 3,600 feet per second is not. Think about that for a minute.

Yeah, legal for moose, elk, bear.  Most .25 cal (.25 ACPs) I've ever messed with would require you to be within about ten yards to hit the animal anyways.   
A 5.7x28 is basically another .22 cal handgun and I wouldn't doubt that it would be able to put down deer and maybe black bear out to say 75 yds than would most other handguns that fall in the legal category.