Is an elk that is shot through the heart necessarily a dead elk?

[JDHasty]

I am saying that a bullet wound from a projectile that that penetrates into the chest and passes through the heart or lungs has lost so much energy that it does not expand, may or may not be ultimately lethal to the animal. 

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't and sometimes it is not directly the cause of ultimate death, but functions as the "root cause," or contributory causal factor of death because although the injury did not kill the animal, the trauma suffered caused enough disruption to the animal's daily routine and subsequent ability to prepare for winter is so compromised that the animal succumbs to "winter kill."

I am also saying that such a wound, caused by a bullet that does not expand, unless it breaks a major skeletal structure is not something that can reliably be expected to result in an animal that is brought to bag. 

This attached photograph is taken from Elk of North America Ecology and Management 1982 and it clearly shows the heart of bull elk that has a "healed up" hole through it that was the result of being shot by a 30 caliber bullet that did not expand.  This elk was subsequently taken by another hunter who found an unexpanded 30 caliber bullet in the animal's chest and was curious enough to do a thorough autopsy.   

This and other cases have been discussed at great length in studies done of wounding dynamics of small arms projectiles wherein hundreds and hundreds of goats, burros and other animals were experimented on.  I cannot recall the name of the report that came out of that study, but it puts the lie to a lot of what people believe about wounding from small arms fire. 

[BULLBLASTER]

And there it is.... the thread started with the sole intent to be a jack... oh and btw nice jab with your picture title.

Isn't it against the forum rules to start another thread to discuss exactly what got the other one locked?

Go back to your varmint shooting bench and leave us alone!

[Jonathan_S]

You've killed a lot of elk have you Hasty?

[Skillet]

This looks pretty lethal to me. 

Ah, just funnin ya Hasty.  Only trolling I get to do for a few months 

[h20hunter]

This looks pretty lethal to me. 

 

Now thats funny.

[JDHasty]

This looks pretty lethal to me. 

It was not lethal.  It healed up and the elk recovered and showed no outward sign of prior injury when it was taken by another hunter. 

[BULLBLASTER]

This looks pretty lethal to me. 

It was not lethal.  It healed up and the elk recovered and showed no outward sign of prior injury when it was taken by another hunter.

Uhh he was referring to the pic he posted of a giant red heart with a pencil through it.
 

[JDHasty]

The US Military did a lot of testing of small arms wounds in the early 20th Century.  They shot a lot of goats, burros, pigs, horses etc and animals shot through the lungs w/non expanding bullet sometimes died right away, usually died later, and fairly frequently recovered.   

[headshot5]

Good reason to make the .223 legal for big game.  Better chance for them to live on a bad shot.   

[JDHasty]

And there it is.... the thread started with the sole intent to be a jack... oh and btw nice jab with your picture title.

Isn't it against the forum rules to start another thread to discuss exactly what got the other one locked?

Go back to your varmint shooting bench and leave us alone!

Go back to my varmint shooting bench so you can:

[jackelope]

A hole in the heart makes it dead.
 

[h20hunter]

Not according to a study 1 billion years ago about a Burro named Senor Burro that was shot by small arms fire and lived to go on to a better life in makeup testing.

 

[JDHasty]

A hole in the heart makes it dead.
 

The hole through the heart did not make that bull elk dead.  That elk was doing just fine when it was shot at a later date.  In the testing that the US Military did in the last century w/ball ammo a 30 caliber hole through the heart and/or lungs did not necessarily result in death either, in fact the people doing the research were surprised about the "recovery" rate.  In a wild population the rate of "total recovery" before the animal succumbed to winter kill off would probably severely limit ultimate recovery.   

[dontgetcrabs]

The only way to guarantee a hole through an elk's heart is lethal 100% of the time you have to use a 6.5 Grendal AR-15 at a minimum of 500 yards. 

[JimmyHoffa]

I guess I have to go for brain stem shots then.  Or do elk survive those too?  No wonder we need howitzers these days.