Interior Secretary repeals lead ban

[baldopepper]

Interesting, maybe another thread on this already.  Also vows to investigate ways to insure public access to all federal properties. People I know "in the know" tell lead ban was not needed anyway.

[pianoman9701]

Here's the article. I'm glad the ban was lifted and i also think we should study the issue.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/02/interior-sec-zinke-repeals-federal-ban-on-hunting-with-lead-bullets/

[bigtex]

As was already posted in another thread, the former USFWS Director's memo did nothing to change actual regulations, it was more of a policy statement for USFWS and it only applied to USFWS lands and some additional migratory bird hunting species that don't already have a lead ban.

Realistically, a lot of refuges already had/have lead ban for all types of hunting, not just waterfowl. The following NWRs in WA allow big game hunting (other than archery): Columbia, Conboy Lake, Hanford Reach NM/Saddle Mountains, Julia Butler Hansen, Little Pend Oreille, McNary, Umatilla, and Willapa. On all of those refuges with the exception of JBH, Little Pend Oreille, and Willapa it is illegal to use lead for any type of hunting (including big game).

[pianoman9701]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

[bigtex]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

[olyguy79]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

it was a lot of fake news/scare tactics. Nothing changed in the regs anywhere. It basically just said wildlife refuges should strive towards being lead free for hunting, which as Bigtex pointed out is already the case on many refuges.

We got a lot of calls in the Senator's office about it and that's the story we told people.


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[Jim/WA]

It won't matter much for us either way. Expansion of California Condors into the PNW is on it's way and we'll all be shooting copper in a few years. This, from the ODFW website, pretty much sums it up:

“There are no proposals by ODFW or the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission to ban or restrict the use of lead ammunition for hunting in Oregon. However, ODFW anticipates that events outside the state, like the restoration of condors in northern California, litigation, legislation or a ballot initiative could affect the use of ammunition, hunting and wildlife management in Oregon.”

The key words being "ballot initiative". Here in Vancouver, aka "Portland metro", environmental lead has been much in the news lately -- from a 2-part KOPB story which included a segment on Swans in Wa to local news about lead poisoning in Bald Eagles along the Columbia. I don't mind shooting copper from my center fires but there is no solution for guys like me who hunt with patched round balls out of a flintlock rifle.

[csaaphill]

yeah was wondering is anyone picked up on this. Nice and was cool to see that guy ride in on a horse.

[csaaphill]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.

[bigtex]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.

The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.

[csaaphill]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.

The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.

well I'm sure he will get to that then.

[olyguy79]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.

The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.

well I'm sure he will get to that then.

Get to what? It was a policy statement and never a reg change. The former USFWS Director directed the policy of National Wildlife Refuges to be lead free in the future. Zinke removed that policy statement. We got a lot of calls from constituents freaking out over this. It was really nothing more than a change in policy that lasted about a month.


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[csaaphill]

Word for word then:
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background  On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement  and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation  The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219

[csaaphill]

Saying it did nothing is not accurate. It didn't do a lot, but it did affect more federal hunting land than previously.

Nowhere in any federal regulations were lead regulations changed. Contrary to some fake news reports, it only affected the policy of the USFWS (National Wildlife Refuges) and not other federal lands.

Who? Libs? I support this revocation, and so do a lot of people if sportsmen are against this then their not real because anyone knows you ban lead to hunt and fish with your screwed.
Ammunition will sky rocket and isn't all that much safer giving the ability to start fires as I've read. lead tackle as in sinkers and weights are cost effective and do the best, anything else would be so danged expensive it wont be worth it.
really looks like it to me:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/order_no._3346.pdf
site wont let me at the actual pic of the PDF file but link takes you there.
It says this act revokes use of none toxic ammunition and fishing gear. It also said order 229 I think it was is hereby revoked, because it did not have ample discussion added to it.
Not really fake news.
Maybe partially misleading news but for all intense and purposes this revokes said order. Now will he add more later maybe but for now this is what it says.

The regs were never changed. It basically said the USFWS should pursue moving towards lead free in the future, but it didn't enact any reg change immediately.

well I'm sure he will get to that then.

Get to what? It was a policy statement and never a reg change. The former USFWS Director directed the policy of National Wildlife Refuges to be lead free in the future. Zinke removed that policy statement. We got a lot of calls from constituents freaking out over this. It was really nothing more than a change in policy that lasted about a month.


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[bigtex]

Word for word then:
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background  On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement  and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation  The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219

And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.

[olyguy79]

Word for word then:
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background  On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement  and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation  The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219

And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.

apparently Phil doesn't get the point. But I guess an LEO and a legislative assistant  have no idea about the legal system in his view and he's an expert. I'm starting to see why a lot of people roll their eyes at Phil...


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[csaaphill]

Word for word then:
Order no. 3346
Subject: Revocation of the United States fish and Wildlife service Directors Order NO. 219
(use of Nontoxic ammunition and Fishing tackle.)
Sec. 1 Purpose. this order Revokes Directors order 219 (Use of Non toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
Sec 2. Background  On Jan 19, 2017 the director of he US fish and wildlife service (FWS) signed Directors order 219 (use of Non Toxic ammunition and fishing tackle).
the order stated that it was effective immediately until incorporated into the FWS manual, or until amended, superseded, or revoked.
Sec. 3 Authority his order is issued under the authority provided under section 2 of reorganization plan No.3 of 1950 (64 stat. 1262), as amended and other applicable authorities.
the secretary retains all authority delegated to the FWS director, including those listed in the Directors order. See 200 DM 1.9.
Sec 4 Determination After reviewing the order and the process by which it promulgated, I have determined that the order is not mandated(219) meaning!) by any existing statuary or regulatory requirement  and was issued without significant communication, consultation, or coordination with effected stakeholders. Giving these facts, I conclude that the order shodl be withdrawn.
Accordingly, the FWS directors order no. 219 (Use of Nontoxic ammunition, and fishing tackle) is hereby revoked.
Sec 5 Implementation  The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219.
Sec 6 This order is effective immediately.
Secretary of Interior his signature, and dated on the bottom as March 2nd 2017.
So sounds and looks like he revocked the old interiors Order to ban lead ammo and fishing tackle to me, even if that order was the day before Trump took office and only lasted until this guy took office he revoked that ban! and it does say the Director is to take full steps to see that this ban is undone. IE: The director of FWS is directed to take all actions necessary to effectuate he revocation of directors order NO. 219

And your point? Nobody is arguing that Zinke didn't revoke/rescind the order. You have two people (myself and Olyguy) who are well versed and well connected in the legal/law world who are saying no new regulation took effect.

Hmmm ok Guess I Misunderstood what was being said. Self-defense mechanism kicks in when I feel I'm being trolled, or being called a liar. 

[lokidog]

I had to point out to some moron on Facebook that Obama didn't stop the use of lead shot.  And just because of this, lead shot would not be allowed in Skagit or other areas for waterfowl hunting.  But WE ALL KNOW Trump is the enviroantichrist....