Taking a partner with a different tag/weapon

[konradcountry]

I was told by a WDFW employee that I could be written up for having a shotgun in the truck during archery. The officer could simply decide that I was in the area to hunt with a rifle even if I left it in the vehicle near camp. This employee told me to never take a rifle when archery hunting.

I suppose I could live with that but what if I am with someone that has a rifle for bear? Should I not take the friend in that situation?

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience in this area. This situation isn't defined in the regulations pamphlet and I don't want to end up fighting a ticket in court.

[Bob33]

It is officer discretion.

Most officers I know would not consider a firearm in a vehicle as sufficient evidence you were hunting with it, barring any other factors.

Having another hunter with you who has a firearm that you can't legally hunt with could be a little more questionable. Again, without other evidence I doubt most officers would be concerned.

[KFhunter]

We had some previous discussion on this topic (I didn't expect you to find it),  I grabbed it and repost here

Thanks.  Before WDFW adds more officers (if they ever do) I would like to see them utilize the people they have now.  A huge portion of WDFW officer's time is wasted on bs.  We (they) spend far too much time on work which has nothing to do with catching poachers.  That is one of my goals; to get WDFW back on track catching poachers, not working dope grows etc.

AMEN!!!!!

It's interesting to read some of the quotes in this thread where people complain about officers being suspicious of hunters.

Until poachers start wearing signs around their necks declaring "I'm a Poacher", how are officers expected to identify the lawbreakers without some suspicion?

The same way I did as a Police Officer for 20 years.  Everyone I made contact with was not a criminal, imagine if I treated all of them that way.  Body language, conversations with guys, not interrogations.....I see it in a lot of police officer today as well, the power has gone to their heads and they act more like everything out of their mouth is gospel and you and I are all dirtbags.  Most of the good wardens make plenty of arrest without being jerks to everyone they make contact with.

My "AMEN" was geared towards Wardens concentrating on game violations then DUI's, Domestics, traffic stops etc...  They are more involved in backing up other officers and doing normal LEO duties then Wildlife violations.  And with so few of them this really allows a lot of guys to get away with a lot of stuff.  They need our help, but I would like to see them focus back on what they were all originally hired for.  Protecting the states wildlife codes.

This is my number 1 problem with law enforcement. LE must remember that we as citizens when contacted are on the defensive.....we are NOT sure if this is going to be a friendly encounter, or the officer is on a crusade to write tickets......I am ALWAYS Leary, even if I know for sure I am doing nothing wrong...... Let me tell you that law enforcement may apply the same laws, but how,  and what they may write you for is officer to officer.....even worse prosecutor to prosecutor. AS A CITIZEN YOU ARE LITERALLY AT THE OFFICERS MERCY.....He can put you through hell with the swipe of his pen, and you have little if any recourse....except the expense of court, and your time. So, officers next time you see a guy/gal  nervous......it may be he/she is more worried about what he can't do about his current situation, rather than him/her doing anything wrong!

Ask Cenci if he would write you a ticket if you had a rifle/shotgun in the vehicle during archery....he told me to my face......yes. I think he is dead wrong! By the definition of hunt....being in a vehicle is not hunting....until you step out to encounter a animal/bird.(exception would be using a vehicle as a way to injure wildlife, or harass)  Never seen anyone ticketed for stalking elk in a park with bino's, and under the definition of "hunt" it would CLEARLY fall under harassment of a animal?? Wouldn't it?? (out of vehicle actively prosuing them)

Seems to me that LE should have a very clear message when they are enforcing the law, and should be the same officer to officer when asked a question on what's legal, and what's NOT!
I realize officers are NOT lawyers, but they should be able to tell you what every officer would write you a ticket for........without it being a guessing game for the public.


Bowbuild

I wouldn't more on this topic, the reg state:

Archery Regulations
1. Rules pertaining to all archery hunting
seasons:
a.   It is unlawful for any person to carry or
have in his possession any firearm while
in the field archery hunting, during an
archery season specified for that area,
except for modern handguns carried for
personal protection. Modern handguns
cannot be used to hunt big game or
dispatch wounded big game during an
archery, big game hunting season.


So if you're in the truck, are you "in the field"?  I wouldn't think so 
Seems as soon as you step out of the truck you grab either the bow or the shotgun but NOT BOTH.


This law became screwed up soon as the state lost it's authority on disallowing archery hunters carrying a pistol.

[bobcat]

If it's in your vehicle, or in your camp, you're not hunting with it. So there's nothing illegal about having a rifle or shotgun in your vehicle, or in your camp. Or, in your house, same thing.

[Squidward]

if you aren't hunting archery, you can have what ever you want in the field. as long as your not a criminal.

[konradcountry]

But it sounds like if I was in the woods with a friend who was bear hunting with a rifle the officer could still write me a ticket even if the rifle wasn't technically in my possession.

That's a court date and major hassle even if the ticket was eventually waved.

I think what I will do is split up before the hunt. That way I am only near the rifle at camp.

[SteelheadTed]

I don't think any officer writes you up for hunting with the wrong weapon if it hasn't left your vehicle.  You have to be in the act of hunting.  Stories about what an officer *would* do are not the same as what an officer actually does.  If a rifle in your vehicle equals intent to hunt then some of ya'll have a lot of explaining to with regard to the contents of your glove box... 

[ghosthunter]

Well with back to back seasons now.

I load up my truck for a week of muzzy, and straight from there to modern deer.
All the nessary firearms are in my truck storage. Never ever had a agent even ask about other firearms.

So you are out bow hunting and run in to another hunter bear hunting with a rifle. You decide to walk out together.
Game agent comes along and tickets you?  I don't buy it.

I keep hearing about all these over zealous agents . In 50 years of hunting I have never met one. Everyone has been nice and easy going.

[jmscon]

So would an Wdfw enforcement officer write someone up for having a sidearm while now or muzzle loader hunting? I doubt it.

[Stein]

So would an Wdfw enforcement officer write someone up for having a sidearm while now or muzzle loader hunting? I doubt it.

No, you are allowed a pistol for personal protection (assuming it is legal for you to have one in your possession).

[jmscon]

So would an Wdfw enforcement officer write someone up for having a sidearm while now or muzzle loader hunting? I doubt it.

No, you are allowed a pistol for personal protection (assuming it is legal for you to have one in your possession).

Right, just can't dispatch an animal you have shot with the bow or muzzleloader with a hand gun.

But, people are also allowed to hunt coyotes with a rifle year round (with the proper license).

You might have some splainin to do but I doubt a person would get written up.

[Colville]

Better question.  Son or daughter (young but licensed) have bow tags, so they can hunt before school starts. Dad or Mom has a rifle tag but, sits a stand with the kid. Bear is OPEN for mom and dad by rifle, deer for kid by bow. Yes i see how people will cheat, but there's nothing illegal about sharing a stand and having different legal tags. But i think if you were stopped on the way to the car with a drad deer, you'd get a raft of $#=t.

[EmeraldBullet]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

[Skyvalhunter]

How did the original post get changed from shotgun to LEO making it a rifle. Grouse season opens the first of Sept when Archery is open.

[bobcat]

The original post mentioned both a shotgun and a rifle.

[konradcountry]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

But as someone else confirmed they have the authority to give a ticket before anything has been killed.

According to the employee I spoke to the officer can issue a ticket over simply having a gun in your truck at camp. The officer can decide you are hunting with a rifle even if you aren't carrying it. So I'm concerned about taking a friend that can legally bring a gun into the same unit.

[NW SURVEYOR]

Who is this "Employee" and what is their position?
Unless the information came from a Warden, I would be skeptical.

Also, I think some of this is up to the Wardens' discretion.
If your driving along the logging roads with a shotgun/rifle in the front seat while bow hunting, what do you expect?
If the shotgun/rifleis "secured" in the back out of sight, yet not hidden, you should be fine.
If the shotgun/rifle is in the front seat with a couple of rounds in your coffee holder, you look like you may be "Hunting" with that weapon.
It could be construed as if the bow is a "Prop", it may be on the back seat where it is safe, but the gun is more handy due to it's structure.
This is all assuming you are alone.

If your with a buddy who has a gun, think ahead and act accordingly.

I think that a lot of this comes down to appearance, if your look guilty, you will be perceived as such.
Guys packing heat in the field while bow hunting, I think you'de asking for trouble.
Just cause somethings legal, does not mean that you have to do it.
Put yourself in the officers' shoes, what would you think/do?
Act accordingly and minimize the risks of being perceived as quilty.

[SteelheadTed]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

But as someone else confirmed they have the authority to give a ticket before anything has been killed.

According to the employee I spoke to the officer can issue a ticket over simply having a gun in your truck at camp. The officer can decide you are hunting with a rifle even if you aren't carrying it. So I'm concerned about taking a friend that can legally bring a gun into the same unit.

I think this is a silly thing to worry about.  So long as you have the proper tags and you and your buddy don't carry one another's weapons you have nothing to worry about.

[ghosthunter]

Packing heat regardless is not against the law.

I have been stopped numerous times by game agents over the years. And not once did any game  agent give a hoot about my in plain view hand gun.

Because they can't do a thing about it. The state constitution allows it. And the game Dept can't make any rule otherwise. As far as possession.

Over the years I have discovered their are a lot of folks who think they know gun law and don't.

I have found State Patrol,game agents,and most rural sheriffs are best educated on state gun laws.

Non law enforcement state and federal employees along with a lot of local cops have no clue.

[bigtex]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

But as someone else confirmed they have the authority to give a ticket before anything has been killed.

According to the employee I spoke to the officer can issue a ticket over simply having a gun in your truck at camp. The officer can decide you are hunting with a rifle even if you aren't carrying it. So I'm concerned about taking a friend that can legally bring a gun into the same unit.

You'd have a hard time finding an officer that would make that case. The offense would be a criminal offense and not a ticket, which means a prosecutor would have to file charges on you, not just an officer scratching out a ticket in your name.

[NW SURVEYOR]

Ghost,

I did not mean to imply that Packing Heat is against the law.
The point that I was trying to make is this; appearances are important.
If you look and act like like you're up to no good, that is the direction the conversation will go.
The appearance of impropriety can/will get LO thinking that somethings up.

Discretion and looking at situations from LO's point of view can go a long ways towards avoiding conflict.
I have generally had nothing but good experiences with Wardens.
But things do come up,

Example:
I had a cut occur while hunting deer in 1985ish.
It was from a stick or something, minor scratch.
Later that day I was stopped by a warden while driving out of the woods.
We talked and then he started asking a bunch of questions about the blood on my finger/hand.
I had forgotten about it till he pointed it out.
Well, it took a bit of splaining to convince him that there was no crime, IE, poached deer.
I understood his position, but at the same time the direction of the conversation made me nervous.

Now, the above was an unavoidable situation, but it has taught me to be aware of potential problems.
Just the APPEARANCE of some wrongdoing can get the ball rolling.
Then if a guy gets indignant and starts declaring what his "Rights" are things may get heated.
Next time you see that wardon/LO, he may have you on his radar, irrespective of your innocence.

Empathy and looking at the whole picture can avoid confusion.

Be safe,
Rob.

[konradcountry]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

But as someone else confirmed they have the authority to give a ticket before anything has been killed.

According to the employee I spoke to the officer can issue a ticket over simply having a gun in your truck at camp. The officer can decide you are hunting with a rifle even if you aren't carrying it. So I'm concerned about taking a friend that can legally bring a gun into the same unit.

I think this is a silly thing to worry about.  So long as you have the proper tags and you and your buddy don't carry one another's weapons you have nothing to worry about.

And I've been given a ticket over a traffic incident that was silly and should have been nothing to worry about. But the officer was having a bad day and decided to take it out on me by using his authority in an area where it is basically his judgment call.

In theory I shouldn't have to worry if the rifle isn't in my possession. But I don't like how this scenario isn't well defined in the regulations and leaves judgement to the officer.

[Sliverslinger]

Maybe I'm the only one- but during archery I will often have a .22 (grouse) and a CF rifle, usually a .308 (coyotes and bear) in my truck. If I've finished up elk hunting in one area and am headed to another and I see a bear way out yonder from the vehicle, my elk hunt  is already over and now I'm going to start a bear hunt. Simply leave the bow in the vehicle and take the rifle and begin a stalk or get off the road and set up to shoot. Otherwise leave the rifles and grab the bow and head in for another hike.
 I've chatted with a couple F&G guys while out and about with 2+ rifles or shotguns in the vehicle and a bow- never been a problem. I can legally hunt archery elk and rifle for bear and coyotes- and nothing says I can't do both in the same day, just that I can't do both at the same time. I do usually have the rifles in a case because I'm focused on elk during Elk season and the others would be more based on unexpected opportunity (grouse in a tree)  but I don't think it matters. I'm not pursuing game at that time while driving from one place to another. Same if I'm glassing from up high on a landing, what I find might determine what I go back to my truck and get.

I take lots of pictures of what I shoot so I'm thinking it will be obvious if my elk had a .308 hole in it.  They could also do the lead dye/color test if uncertain.

[SteelheadTed]

You'd hope the WDFW could tell the difference between a gunshot wound and an arrow provided the carcus. I understand dressing the animal could make it more difficult, but take a pic with your phone (with time and gps enabled on the microdata on the photo)....

But as someone else confirmed they have the authority to give a ticket before anything has been killed.

According to the employee I spoke to the officer can issue a ticket over simply having a gun in your truck at camp. The officer can decide you are hunting with a rifle even if you aren't carrying it. So I'm concerned about taking a friend that can legally bring a gun into the same unit.

I think this is a silly thing to worry about.  So long as you have the proper tags and you and your buddy don't carry one another's weapons you have nothing to worry about.

And I've been given a ticket over a traffic incident that was silly and should have been nothing to worry about. But the officer was having a bad day and decided to take it out on me by using his authority in an area where it is basically his judgment call.

In theory I shouldn't have to worry if the rifle isn't in my possession. But I don't like how this scenario isn't well defined in the regulations and leaves judgement to the officer.

Heaven help us in a world where officers have no ability to exercise judgement.  You want a cut and dry world.  It doesn't exist.

[ghosthunter]

Ghost,

I did not mean to imply that Packing Heat is against the law.
The point that I was trying to make is this; appearances are important.
If you look and act like like you're up to no good, that is the direction the conversation will go.
The appearance of impropriety can/will get LO thinking that somethings up.

Discretion and looking at situations from LO's point of view can go a long ways towards avoiding conflict.
I have generally had nothing but good experiences with Wardens.
But things do come up,

Example:
I had a cut occur while hunting deer in 1985ish.
It was from a stick or something, minor scratch.
Later that day I was stopped by a warden while driving out of the woods.
We talked and then he started asking a bunch of questions about the blood on my finger/hand.
I had forgotten about it till he pointed it out.
Well, it took a bit of splaining to convince him that there was no crime, IE, poached deer.
I understood his position, but at the same time the direction of the conversation made me nervous.

Now, the above was an unavoidable situation, but it has taught me to be aware of potential problems.
Just the APPEARANCE of some wrongdoing can get the ball rolling.
Then if a guy gets indignant and starts declaring what his "Rights" are things may get heated.
Next time you see that wardon/LO, he may have you on his radar, irrespective of your innocence.

Empathy and looking at the whole picture can avoid confusion.

Be safe,
Rob.

Oh I agree completely.

I come in contact with several game agents through the year,so maybe I am a little more relaxed around them. I got a parking ticket from one once and although it was my honest mistake I understood his point.

I the only thing that qills me ,is there shouldn't be any concern over me or anyone packing heat [ handgun ] during bow,muzzy or modern. It is well established fact that the law allows it and any one who wants too should not have to give it a 2nd thought.
I think game agents are well informed on self defense carry and unless there is some other evidence besides the fact you are packing that leads them to think you were up to no good ,well they just aren't going to care.

I have never bought into the thinking that you shouldn't exercise your rights because some one might think ill of you. Be polite and cordial.
That's been my experience.

[konradcountry]

Heaven help us in a world where officers have no ability to exercise judgement.  You want a cut and dry world.  It doesn't exist.

I'm not making any demands of the world. But this is a scenario that could easily be handled in the game regulations with just a few sentences. They have a well defined regulation on hunting with aircraft and this is a far more common scenario.

I think I'll email the director and see what he says.

[konradcountry]

I the only thing that qills me ,is there shouldn't be any concern over me or anyone packing heat [ handgun ] during bow,muzzy or modern. It is well established fact that the law allows it and any one who wants too should not have to give it a 2nd thought.

It is allowed but I still wouldn't take anything that would give me better range than a bow. For example I would never take a .357 with a scope.

I think it would be analogous to getting pulled over with a radar detector in view. Maybe you won't get a speeding ticket but there is no way in hell you are getting a break on anything that might be wrong.