Should the WA special draw POINTS system be done away with (POLL)

[7mag.]

I voted no, because the system isn't necessarily the problem. The problem is the number of people vs the number of opportunity. There would also be a big problem with simply doing away with the points. The state has sold those points to people, and if they decided to cancel them, I believe there would be a large class action law suit against the state.
If you don't like the system, you don't have to be part of it. You are free to spend your money in a state that has a system you like.

Does anyone else see you much like liberals you all sound like by complaining about the system because you didn't draw?

[Mfowl]

Let's put this debate to rest and have a poll to see what the numbers are.

So far, this poll isn't putting anything to rest.

I voted no, 1 name/species/category is going to generate a whole new list of gripes about WDFW. Some guys will draw great tags back to back or 2 times in 3 years while others guys get blanked over and over. It will boil down to WDFW's screwed up draw system and they'll get blamed for changing it and being inept. Fact is they don't guarantee your points will get you a tag you play the game and take your chances.

[Curly]

My feeling is the category system is bad for us hunters but was brilliant for wdfw to implement as a way of raising money.

They forced it upon us with very little public support and they lied to the wildlife commission about the amount of support there was for the category system. The permit system we have now is every bit as bad as I had suspected it would be.

I pleaded with the commission to not approve the system until more people had a chance to understand the proposed system and comment on it. But their answer to me was that they were going to approve the category system and that "it could be tweeked" in the future as necessary.

My biggest complaint was how Dave Ware chose to apply one's points across the board into each category of a species.  I still can't believe they thought that idea was okay. I've got points sitting there in disabled, over 65, youth, etc that I don't deserve to have there since I've never applied in those categories.

The other complaint I had brought up when the category system was up as a proposal,  was how draw odds were going to become much worse. I thought it was odd they were coming out with the category system when one of the biggest complaints was how so many people had max point totals and still couldn't draw. Well, the category system made it worse.

I believe the category system we have now was implemented for one main reason.......revenue to wdfw.

A secondary reason was to appease the complainers with max points. They thought they could appease them by giving points to them in all categories and allowing them to draw permits in other categories while still having a chance at that permit they covet the most.

So, here we sit 7 years after implementation of this crap system. (Crappy that is if you are applying in the system, but a great system if you are wdfw and looking for revenue.)  If they were going to "tweek" anything like they claimed back then, they should have taken back all those points they distributed that were not earned, but they really would have had to do that before that first draw season........really is too late now.

Other tweeks they should do in my opinion is eliminate some categories. Combine bull/quality bull and buck/quality buck for starters.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. Bottom line, wdfw will never get rid of points in favor of an Idaho like system. Doesn't matter if it's the right thing to do.  Doesn't matter if new hunters may not get into a system (where thousands of applicants may have dozens of points ahead of them) and feel like it's a waste to apply in that system. Doesn't matter to them that a guy turning 65 may already have 14 points sitting ther in that category.  The only thing they care about is money.

[Miles]

As a disclaimer, I have Zero points for all categories in WA.  I've never put in for any special draws and always used to just hunt the general seasons.

I started this poll simply because of all the talk about points and thought it would be neat to see the results.

[Gonehuntin01]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

[idahohuntr]

My biggest complaint was how Dave Ware chose to apply one's points across the board into each category of a species. 

My recollection of discussing points systems/odds/etc with him was that he may not have passed even a remedial math course. 

[bobcat]

My biggest complaint was how Dave Ware chose to apply one's points across the board into each category of a species. 

My recollection of discussing points systems/odds/etc with him was that he may not have passed even a remedial math course.

    No doubt that's the case.

[bobcat]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

We don't have enough special permits available in the draw versus the number of applicants for a preference point system to work here.

[bearpaw]

I don't like point systems but I voted no because I have too big of investment in points, I buy a lot of ghost points to build points when I know I don't have time to go on a hunt that year if I happened to draw. I don't want anyone taking away the points I have purchased.

If there was an option for a mixed system, I would probably vote for that and it would probably offer everyone something they can live with.

[Miles]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

We don't have enough special permits available in the draw versus the number of applicants for a preference point system to work here.

Only then would Washingtonians fully understand point creep... 

[trophyhunt]

My feeling is the category system is bad for us hunters but was brilliant for wdfw to implement as a way of raising money.

They forced it upon us with very little public support and they lied to the wildlife commission about the amount of support there was for the category system. The permit system we have now is every bit as bad as I had suspected it would be.

I pleaded with the commission to not approve the system until more people had a chance to understand the proposed system and comment on it. But their answer to me was that they were going to approve the category system and that "it could be tweeked" in the future as necessary.

My biggest complaint was how Dave Ware chose to apply one's points across the board into each category of a species.  I still can't believe they thought that idea was okay. I've got points sitting there in disabled, over 65, youth, etc that I don't deserve to have there since I've never applied in those categories.

The other complaint I had brought up when the category system was up as a proposal,  was how draw odds were going to become much worse. I thought it was odd they were coming out with the category system when one of the biggest complaints was how so many people had max point totals and still couldn't draw. Well, the category system made it worse.

I believe the category system we have now was implemented for one main reason.......revenue to wdfw.

A secondary reason was to appease the complainers with max points. They thought they could appease them by giving points to them in all categories and allowing them to draw permits in other categories while still having a chance at that permit they covet the most.

So, here we sit 7 years after implementation of this crap system. (Crappy that is if you are applying in the system, but a great system if you are wdfw and looking for revenue.)  If they were going to "tweek" anything like they claimed back then, they should have taken back all those points they distributed that were not earned, but they really would have had to do that before that first draw season........really is too late now.

Other tweeks they should do in my opinion is eliminate some categories. Combine bull/quality bull and buck/quality buck for starters.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. Bottom line, wdfw will never get rid of points in favor of an Idaho like system. Doesn't matter if it's the right thing to do.  Doesn't matter if new hunters may not get into a system (where thousands of applicants may have dozens of points ahead of them) and feel like it's a waste to apply in that system. Doesn't matter to them that a guy turning 65 may already have 14 points sitting ther in that category.  The only thing they care about is money.

have to agree, but I do think the best way to eliminate the point system is to just no longer gives points out.  This way they don't have to take away points and they can keep the revenue that is their main goal.  I also agree w other ideas like less catagories and picking between elk, deer apps OR OIL tags, not both in same year. 

[JimmyHoffa]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

The point multiplier could be changed and it might give some results closer to a preference point system, without dedicating permits for the high rollers.  Just going to ^3 instead of ^2 would likely shift permits to the upper brackets.  But then it becomes further from the grasp of the low points that it might scare off future applicants.

[Bob33]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

The point multiplier could be changed and it might give some results closer to a preference point system, without dedicating permits for the high rollers.  Just going to ^3 instead of ^2 would likely shift permits to the upper brackets.  But then it becomes further from the grasp of the low points that it might scare off future applicants.

Unless permits are increased or applicants decreased,  anything that improves odds for one person decrease odds for someone else.

[Jpmiller]

I vote no...don't believe we do away with the system.  I believe we would be better off with a preference point system.  Guys with most points would draw the units.  Would take a couple years to balance out, but your odds of drawing go up with more points, not down.  Doesn't matter what system we use, we will never please everyone.  I think Wyoming and Colorado use preference points and you can usually figure out how many points you will need to have to draw the units you put in for.

The point multiplier could be changed and it might give some results closer to a preference point system, without dedicating permits for the high rollers.  Just going to ^3 instead of ^2 would likely shift permits to the upper brackets.  But then it becomes further from the grasp of the low points that it might scare off future applicants.

Unless permits are increased or applicants decreased,  anything that improves odds for one person decrease odds for someone else.

That's why I ended up voting no. I don't want to discourage new hunters or low point holders from pursuing g opportunities in the field. Honestly I think I'm ok with hunting every year and getting one or two chances at a quality tag in my lifetime.

I've also sketched out a twenty year plan for some out of state hunts though.

[Mfowl]

What is it that people want to gain from a different or modified permit process? Do you want to draw quality tags more often? Just draw a tag? Use the points you've accrued on a good tag and be done with it? Draw an OIL tag? Just curious.